From: <bounce-127917029-3493952...> <bounce-127917029-3493952...> On Behalf Of Peter Saracino
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2023 6:36 PM
To: <eatonbirdingsociety...>; CAYUGABIRDS-L <CAYUGABIRDS-L...>
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Woodpecker pecking siding question
https://search.worldcat.org/title/1221838439 In case you want your public library to request a copy. World Cat also has several buy links. This book appears to still be "in print."
Date: 11/28/23 2:48 pm From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Re: Seeking 1998 Bull’s Birds of New York
Thank-you everyone for your prompt replies with ideas and sources. This was so effective that Reuben was able to obtain a copy this very afternoon from Joe Brin.
- - Dave Nutter
> On Nov 28, 2023, at 1:13 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> I’m writing on behalf of Reuben Stoltzfus. As he researches the historical records of birds in New York, he is seeking to purchase a copy of the 1998 edition of Birds of New York State by John Bull. If you can help, please call him at (607) 869-9466 and leave a message on extension 3. Thanks!
>
> In case this helps, the 1985 edition which I have is copyright by the American Museum of Natural History and it was published by Comstock Publishing Associates, a division of Cornell University Press.
>
> - - Dave Nutter
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Date: 11/28/23 10:13 am From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Seeking 1998 Bull’s Birds of New York
Hi All,
I’m writing on behalf of Reuben Stoltzfus. As he researches the historical records of birds in New York, he is seeking to purchase a copy of the 1998 edition of Birds of New York State by John Bull. If you can help, please call him at (607) 869-9466 and leave a message on extension 3. Thanks!
In case this helps, the 1985 edition which I have is copyright by the American Museum of Natural History and it was published by Comstock Publishing Associates, a division of Cornell University Press.
- - Dave Nutter
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Date: 11/28/23 5:31 am From: John Gregoire <johnandsuegregoire...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Your bird
Congrats on that Md find. I missed that count with Chan as we were just starting the Jug Bay CBC so he did the Ocean City CBC while I stayed home prepping the data collection for Jug Bay which was entirely too detailed but we had a star-studded list of birders ;-) .
I thought you would like to see the official Md records blurb. It took a few years to get accepted.
"There was a LCSp on 12/27/1974 Ocean City CBC. MD/DCRC #1995-011. Accepted. One HY bird, unsexed. BBL database. Found on OC CBC by David Nutter and Paul Burdick. Bird was banded on 01/04/1975. Band #1260-60825. MB 31(1):16. MB 31(1):1-2, cover photo. AB 29(2):298. AB 29(3):676. PWRC photo duplicate file #548-1B. Copies of two slides by C Vaughn. BBL database shows SY/U. "
Best, John
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by Jane Graves,
Regional Coordinator for Cayuga, Cortland, Onondaga, Ontario, Oswego,
Seneca, Wayne, and Yates counties.
To all the folks who have contributed to the NY Breeding Bird Atlas – THANK YOU!
As we head into the final field season of NYSBBAIII, I encourage
atlasers to go beyond their local birding sites and visit incomplete
priority blocks. While owl observations are no longer required to
complete a priority block, they are desired. The majority of Atlas
priority blocks do not have owl reports.
If you find owls while participating in Christmas Bird Counts, please
submit them through the Atlas portal even if they occur in
non-priority blocks.
As a reminder, Great Horned Owls start nesting in late January, and
are engaged in courtship activities for several weeks before that;
Eastern Screech-Owls and Barred Owls typically begin to nest in
mid-to-late March; Northern Saw-whet Owls breed somewhat later,
beginning in early April.
The following is a county-by-county list of incomplete priority blocks
in which no owls have been reported.
Onondaga: Brewerton CE; Camillus CE; Cicero CE; DeRuyter NW; Jordan
CE; Marcellus CE; Otisco Valley CE; Otisco Valley NW; South Onondaga
CE; South Onondaga NW; Spafford CE; Syracuse East NW; Syracuse West
CE; Tully NW.
Ontario: Bristol Center NW; Canandaigua CE; Canandaigua Lake NW;
Canandaigua NW; Clifton Springs CE; Clifton Springs NW; Geneva North
NW; Honeoye Falls CE; Naples NW; Phelps CE; Rushville CE; Rushville
NW; Stanley NW.
Oswego: Dugway NW; Fulton NW; Hannibal CE; Hannibal NW; Mexico CE;
Mexico NW; New Haven NW; Orwell CE; Orwell NW; Oswego East CE; Oswego
East NW; Richland CE; Richland NW; Worth Center CE.
Date: 11/27/23 7:04 am From: Donna Lee Scott <dls9...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
Lovely story, Dave!
This would make a good article for CBC newsletter, along w a little background on current bird re-naming work.
DS
Donna Scott
Kendal at Ithaca-377
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2023, at 2:11 PM, Jane Frances Bunker <jfb324...> wrote:
Dave, that’s a wonderful story! Thank you for sharing it.
Jane
On Nov 26, 2023, at 12:31 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> wrote:
I think the idea is to give birds names which help us think of the birds rather than giving them names of people which can get the birds tangled in human affairs. The question becomes what attributes of the bird are unique, helpful, and concise enough to be a useful name for a species.
For example, the first time I encountered a LeConte’s Sparrow, I had never heard of LeConte, nor the bird which was named after him. In fact, I knew very little about sparrows. It was late December 1974, and I was a high schooler on a Christmas Bird Count near Ocean City, Maryland, hours away from my home, on a several-day youth birding field trip through a nature center.
The bird flushed from a dry weedy field where I was walking with my birding partner that day, another teenager named Paul Burdick. It perched atop a stalk several yards away and sat there while we stared perplexed through binoculars then got out our field guides. My Peterson Eastern US guide showed 14 tiny profiles of stripy-breasted sparrows on one page and 16 tiny profiles of plainer breasted sparrows on the next. They were hard for me to distinguish, and names like Lincoln’s, Henslow’s, Baird’s, LeConte’s, Nelson’s, and Harris’s gave no clues about habitat or field marks but instead mixed me up further. So I had never studied those pages, and in this crucial moment my eyes glazed over and my mind went blank.
I looked over Paul’s shoulder at his open Golden Guide to Birds of North America. It had a 2-page spread of larger bust portraits, which was better, of 12 stripy-breasted sparrows opposite 20 plain-breasted sparrows, but including 3 additional people-names. Nine pages followed with larger portraits facing descriptions and maps. Again, this was better, but it took awhile to rule out enough to arrive at the most likely page (which depicted nothing familiar to me). Our bird had a distinctly yellow face and a dark cap. I pointed to the picture at the top. “It’s that one with the white line in the middle of the crown.“ Amazingly, the bird was still atop the weed for us to double-check and agree: LeConte’s Sparrow. The map was so small and vague that we couldn’t tell that Maryland was a bit outside its range.
At the compilation that evening our bird was not on the list, but at the conclusion the compiler, Chandler Robbins, primary author of the Golden Guide, asked if there were any additional species. Paul and I raised our hands. “LeConte’s Sparrow”. The crowded room was quiet. There were no dismissive comments. The compiler handed each of us a pen and a piece of blank paper and asked us to describe and draw our observations. Sparrows are so small and complicated and stripy, and I had never tried to draw one (as I had some larger birds) nor considered the various feather tracts and what to call them. The bird had been alone, so size was hard to say, although it was small. I had never compared the length or shape of sparrows’ tails. My description was basically “a sparrow with no wing bars, that was yellow especially on the face, and that had a dark crown with a narrow white stripe down the middle.” We told the compiler where the field was, and it turns out the habitat was appropriate.
Although our observation was not immediately added to the count, our descriptions prompted a return expedition a week later from Washington, DC, and I was invited as was another teenager, Peter Pyle, a budding bander (who later wrote the banders’ Identification Guide to North American Passerines.) There were 2 or 3 carloads of us. We set up mist nets in front of a hedge at one end of the field, then most of us circled around to the far end, spread out, and slowly walked toward the nets, driving the birds ahead of us. Peter was among a few who stayed near the nets. As the birds arrived he saw the little yellowish one approaching, but it flew between a pole and the adjacent net to settle on the ground just beyond. Peter clapped a hand down over it and caught the first Maryland record of LeConte’s Sparrow. Several people took photographs. A couple feathers were plucked, I think to add to the Smithsonian collections, then I was very relieved that the bird was released rather than turned entirely into a museum specimen. Someone went to a pay phone to make a collect phone call from “Lee Conte” as a coded message that our ID was good.
Paul and I could not have identified the bird if it had not stayed perched long enough for us to flip through the field guides. Our process might have been a lot faster if the bird was named “Yellow-faced Sparrow,” so that’s my suggestion.
- - Dave Nutter
On Nov 26, 2023, at 9:37 AM, Donna Lee Scott <dls9...><mailto:<dls9...>> wrote:
Horrors. No bird deserves a name like that!
Donna Scott
Kendal at Ithaca-377
Sent from my iPhone
I think they should change the name of the Wilson Snipe to the Trump Snipe.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...><mailto:<nutter.dave...>> Date: 11/26/23 8:34 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: CayugaBirds-L b <cayugabirds-l...><mailto:<cayugabirds-l...>> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
What would be better names for birds? The American Ornithologist Society says the public will be involved. It’s going to be interesting. What are your suggestions?
Date: 11/27/23 4:27 am From: Laurie Michelman <lauriemichelman...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Fwd: ID help
Looking for help with an ID of a goose seen yesterday by the NE college in Seneca Falls. It is not the same one seen by Dave Kennedy a few days ago. If you message me I can send pictures directly. I have not put on ebird yet. Thank you for the help.
-Laurie
<LamLaw...> or
<Lauriemichelman...>
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Date: 11/26/23 11:11 am From: Jane Frances Bunker <jfb324...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
Dave, that’s a wonderful story! Thank you for sharing it.
Jane
On Nov 26, 2023, at 12:31 PM, Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> wrote:
I think the idea is to give birds names which help us think of the birds rather than giving them names of people which can get the birds tangled in human affairs. The question becomes what attributes of the bird are unique, helpful, and concise enough to be a useful name for a species.
For example, the first time I encountered a LeConte’s Sparrow, I had never heard of LeConte, nor the bird which was named after him. In fact, I knew very little about sparrows. It was late December 1974, and I was a high schooler on a Christmas Bird Count near Ocean City, Maryland, hours away from my home, on a several-day youth birding field trip through a nature center.
The bird flushed from a dry weedy field where I was walking with my birding partner that day, another teenager named Paul Burdick. It perched atop a stalk several yards away and sat there while we stared perplexed through binoculars then got out our field guides. My Peterson Eastern US guide showed 14 tiny profiles of stripy-breasted sparrows on one page and 16 tiny profiles of plainer breasted sparrows on the next. They were hard for me to distinguish, and names like Lincoln’s, Henslow’s, Baird’s, LeConte’s, Nelson’s, and Harris’s gave no clues about habitat or field marks but instead mixed me up further. So I had never studied those pages, and in this crucial moment my eyes glazed over and my mind went blank.
I looked over Paul’s shoulder at his open Golden Guide to Birds of North America. It had a 2-page spread of larger bust portraits, which was better, of 12 stripy-breasted sparrows opposite 20 plain-breasted sparrows, but including 3 additional people-names. Nine pages followed with larger portraits facing descriptions and maps. Again, this was better, but it took awhile to rule out enough to arrive at the most likely page (which depicted nothing familiar to me). Our bird had a distinctly yellow face and a dark cap. I pointed to the picture at the top. “It’s that one with the white line in the middle of the crown.“ Amazingly, the bird was still atop the weed for us to double-check and agree: LeConte’s Sparrow. The map was so small and vague that we couldn’t tell that Maryland was a bit outside its range.
At the compilation that evening our bird was not on the list, but at the conclusion the compiler, Chandler Robbins, primary author of the Golden Guide, asked if there were any additional species. Paul and I raised our hands. “LeConte’s Sparrow”. The crowded room was quiet. There were no dismissive comments. The compiler handed each of us a pen and a piece of blank paper and asked us to describe and draw our observations. Sparrows are so small and complicated and stripy, and I had never tried to draw one (as I had some larger birds) nor considered the various feather tracts and what to call them. The bird had been alone, so size was hard to say, although it was small. I had never compared the length or shape of sparrows’ tails. My description was basically “a sparrow with no wing bars, that was yellow especially on the face, and that had a dark crown with a narrow white stripe down the middle.” We told the compiler where the field was, and it turns out the habitat was appropriate.
Although our observation was not immediately added to the count, our descriptions prompted a return expedition a week later from Washington, DC, and I was invited as was another teenager, Peter Pyle, a budding bander (who later wrote the banders’ Identification Guide to North American Passerines.) There were 2 or 3 carloads of us. We set up mist nets in front of a hedge at one end of the field, then most of us circled around to the far end, spread out, and slowly walked toward the nets, driving the birds ahead of us. Peter was among a few who stayed near the nets. As the birds arrived he saw the little yellowish one approaching, but it flew between a pole and the adjacent net to settle on the ground just beyond. Peter clapped a hand down over it and caught the first Maryland record of LeConte’s Sparrow. Several people took photographs. A couple feathers were plucked, I think to add to the Smithsonian collections, then I was very relieved that the bird was released rather than turned entirely into a museum specimen. Someone went to a pay phone to make a collect phone call from “Lee Conte” as a coded message that our ID was good.
Paul and I could not have identified the bird if it had not stayed perched long enough for us to flip through the field guides. Our process might have been a lot faster if the bird was named “Yellow-faced Sparrow,” so that’s my suggestion.
- - Dave Nutter
On Nov 26, 2023, at 9:37 AM, Donna Lee Scott <dls9...><mailto:<dls9...>> wrote:
Horrors. No bird deserves a name like that!
Donna Scott
Kendal at Ithaca-377
Sent from my iPhone
I think they should change the name of the Wilson Snipe to the Trump Snipe.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...><mailto:<nutter.dave...>> Date: 11/26/23 8:34 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: CayugaBirds-L b <cayugabirds-l...><mailto:<cayugabirds-l...>> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
What would be better names for birds? The American Ornithologist Society says the public will be involved. It’s going to be interesting. What are your suggestions?
Date: 11/26/23 9:31 am From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
I think the idea is to give birds names which help us think of the birds rather than giving them names of people which can get the birds tangled in human affairs. The question becomes what attributes of the bird are unique, helpful, and concise enough to be a useful name for a species.
For example, the first time I encountered a LeConte’s Sparrow, I had never heard of LeConte, nor the bird which was named after him. In fact, I knew very little about sparrows. It was late December 1974, and I was a high schooler on a Christmas Bird Count near Ocean City, Maryland, hours away from my home, on a several-day youth birding field trip through a nature center.
The bird flushed from a dry weedy field where I was walking with my birding partner that day, another teenager named Paul Burdick. It perched atop a stalk several yards away and sat there while we stared perplexed through binoculars then got out our field guides. My Peterson Eastern US guide showed 14 tiny profiles of stripy-breasted sparrows on one page and 16 tiny profiles of plainer breasted sparrows on the next. They were hard for me to distinguish, and names like Lincoln’s, Henslow’s, Baird’s, LeConte’s, Nelson’s, and Harris’s gave no clues about habitat or field marks but instead mixed me up further. So I had never studied those pages, and in this crucial moment my eyes glazed over and my mind went blank.
I looked over Paul’s shoulder at his open Golden Guide to Birds of North America. It had a 2-page spread of larger bust portraits, which was better, of 12 stripy-breasted sparrows opposite 20 plain-breasted sparrows, but including 3 additional people-names. Nine pages followed with larger portraits facing descriptions and maps. Again, this was better, but it took awhile to rule out enough to arrive at the most likely page (which depicted nothing familiar to me). Our bird had a distinctly yellow face and a dark cap. I pointed to the picture at the top. “It’s that one with the white line in the middle of the crown.“ Amazingly, the bird was still atop the weed for us to double-check and agree: LeConte’s Sparrow. The map was so small and vague that we couldn’t tell that Maryland was a bit outside its range.
At the compilation that evening our bird was not on the list, but at the conclusion the compiler, Chandler Robbins, primary author of the Golden Guide, asked if there were any additional species. Paul and I raised our hands. “LeConte’s Sparrow”. The crowded room was quiet. There were no dismissive comments. The compiler handed each of us a pen and a piece of blank paper and asked us to describe and draw our observations. Sparrows are so small and complicated and stripy, and I had never tried to draw one (as I had some larger birds) nor considered the various feather tracts and what to call them. The bird had been alone, so size was hard to say, although it was small. I had never compared the length or shape of sparrows’ tails. My description was basically “a sparrow with no wing bars, that was yellow especially on the face, and that had a dark crown with a narrow white stripe down the middle.” We told the compiler where the field was, and it turns out the habitat was appropriate.
Although our observation was not immediately added to the count, our descriptions prompted a return expedition a week later from Washington, DC, and I was invited as was another teenager, Peter Pyle, a budding bander (who later wrote the banders’ Identification Guide to North American Passerines.) There were 2 or 3 carloads of us. We set up mist nets in front of a hedge at one end of the field, then most of us circled around to the far end, spread out, and slowly walked toward the nets, driving the birds ahead of us. Peter was among a few who stayed near the nets. As the birds arrived he saw the little yellowish one approaching, but it flew between a pole and the adjacent net to settle on the ground just beyond. Peter clapped a hand down over it and caught the first Maryland record of LeConte’s Sparrow. Several people took photographs. A couple feathers were plucked, I think to add to the Smithsonian collections, then I was very relieved that the bird was released rather than turned entirely into a museum specimen. Someone went to a pay phone to make a collect phone call from “Lee Conte” as a coded message that our ID was good.
Paul and I could not have identified the bird if it had not stayed perched long enough for us to flip through the field guides. Our process might have been a lot faster if the bird was named “Yellow-faced Sparrow,” so that’s my suggestion.
- - Dave Nutter
> On Nov 26, 2023, at 9:37 AM, Donna Lee Scott <dls9...> wrote:
>
> Horrors. No bird deserves a name like that!
>
> Donna Scott
> Kendal at Ithaca-377
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 26, 2023, at 8:58 AM, billebersbach <billebersbach...> wrote:
>>
>> I think they should change the name of the Wilson Snipe to the Trump Snipe.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...>
>> Date: 11/26/23 8:34 AM (GMT-05:00)
>> To: CayugaBirds-L b <cayugabirds-l...>
>> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
>>
>> What would be better names for birds? The American Ornithologist Society says the public will be involved. It’s going to be interesting. What are your suggestions?
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2023/bird-names-racism-audobon-satire/?wpisrc=nl_ideas >>
>> - - Dave Nutter
>> --
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Date: 11/26/23 6:37 am From: Donna Lee Scott <dls9...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
Horrors. No bird deserves a name like that!
Donna Scott
Kendal at Ithaca-377
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 26, 2023, at 8:58 AM, billebersbach <billebersbach...> wrote:
I think they should change the name of the Wilson Snipe to the Trump Snipe.
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...>
Date: 11/26/23 8:34 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: CayugaBirds-L b <cayugabirds-l...>
Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
What would be better names for birds? The American Ornithologist Society says the public will be involved. It’s going to be interesting. What are your suggestions?
Date: 11/26/23 5:57 am From: billebersbach <billebersbach...> Subject: RE: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
I think they should change the name of the Wilson Snipe to the Trump Snipe.Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> Date: 11/26/23 8:34 AM (GMT-05:00) To: CayugaBirds-L b <cayugabirds-l...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds What would be better names for birds? The American Ornithologist Society says the public will be involved. It’s going to be interesting. What are your suggestions? https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2023/bird-names-racism-audobon-satire/?wpisrc=nl_ideas- - Dave Nutter
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Date: 11/26/23 5:34 am From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Involving the public to rename birds
What would be better names for birds? The American Ornithologist Society says the public will be involved. It’s going to be interesting. What are your suggestions?
Date: 11/20/23 6:11 pm From: Margaret Hurley <drmargarethurley...> Subject: Re:[cayugabirds-l] cayugabirds-l digest: November 20, 2023
I observed a group of about 50 Canada geese today at the pond near the West
Danby fire station. I didn’t have a scope but with binoculars there
appeared to be a group of about 10 goslings amidst the group. Is this
possible?
On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 12:00 AM Upstate NY Birding digest <
<cayugabirds-l...> wrote:
> CAYUGABIRDS-L Digest for Monday, November 20, 2023.
>
> 1. Interpretive walks at the Montezuma Refuge
> 2. Refuge walks cont'd.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Interpretive walks at the Montezuma Refuge
> From: Peter Saracino <petersaracino...>
> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 07:20:10 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 1
>
> Friends:
> Come join me for the very last Refuge walk of the season! Nature in the
> Northern Hemisphere is settling in for a long winter's nap. Many strategies
> have evolved across the spectrum of organisms for coping with the shorter
> days and cooler temperatures - godwits flying eleven days and one hour
> nonstop; wood frogs stopping both heart and brain for a spell, to mention a
> few. Learn of these and more. Walks are free and all ages welcomed.
> We meet in the Refuge Visitor Center sunroom at 11 am on Saturday the 25th.
> Walks are free and all ages welcomed.
> Pete Sar
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Refuge walks cont'd.
> From: Peter Saracino <petersaracino...>
> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 16:54:04 -0500
> X-Message-Number: 2
>
> Hi again folks.
> Some are asking how to find the refuge and how long the walks are.
> The Refuge entrance is a few miles north of Seneca Falls along rt. 5&20.
> The Visitor Center is the first building you'll see ON YOUR LEFT as you
> drivev in.
> The walk is along the mile long seneca trail and is suppose to last about
> an hour and a half....but we often get talking, looking and listening and
> sharing and have gone as long as 2.5 hours. People are free to leave as
> they must.
> Hope this helps.
> "Things" are really on the move (visiting dunlin) or really slowing down
> (infamous wood frog)....or somewhere in between (newly arriving tundra
> swans and snow geese).
> Nature's treasure are still there for the taking. So I hope you can join
> us.
> If not, Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!
> Sar
>
>
>
> ---
>
> END OF DIGEST
>
>
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Hi again folks. Some are asking how to find the refuge and how long the walks are. The Refuge entrance is a few miles north of Seneca Falls along rt. 5&20. The Visitor Center is the first building you'll see ON YOUR LEFT as you drivev in. The walk is along the mile long seneca trail and is suppose to last about an hour and a half....but we often get talking, looking and listening and sharing and have gone as long as 2.5 hours. People are free to leave as they must. Hope this helps. "Things" are really on the move (visiting dunlin) or really slowing down (infamous wood frog)....or somewhere in between (newly arriving tundra swans and snow geese). Nature's treasure are still there for the taking. So I hope you can join us. If not, Happy Thanksgiving to one and all! Sar
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Date: 11/19/23 4:20 am From: Peter Saracino <petersaracino...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Interpretive walks at the Montezuma Refuge
Friends: Come join me for the very last Refuge walk of the season! Nature in the Northern Hemisphere is settling in for a long winter's nap. Many strategies have evolved across the spectrum of organisms for coping with the shorter days and cooler temperatures - godwits flying eleven days and one hour nonstop; wood frogs stopping both heart and brain for a spell, to mention a few. Learn of these and more. Walks are free and all ages welcomed. We meet in the Refuge Visitor Center sunroom at 11 am on Saturday the 25th. Walks are free and all ages welcomed. Pete Sar
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Date: 11/18/23 11:40 am From: Gladys J Birdsall <gjb5...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Rusty Blackbird flock at SSW
On our beginner bird walk this morning Lisa and I and three visitors saw a large flock of blackbirds fly into a couple treetops. We were almost to the Sherwood platform. They just did not seem to fit "Starlings" . Longer tails and they sounded different. Getting the scope on them we saw that it was almost all Rusty Blackbirds. Most in nonbreeding plummage. We had good light on them and there were a few birds still in black plummage. We saw yellow eyes on almost all the birds. I did find a couple female Red-winged Blackbirds. They were very boldly streaked/striped beneath and had the light eyebrow, dark eyes. We had a good amount of time to look at them before they took off. The birds were beautiful in their winter plummage, and the lighting was perfect.
They later came around a second time but landed even closer to us in a couple treetops. They were chattering as they flew in, and did sound different than a group of just Red-winged BB would sound. Another person near us had Merlin going and he said it showed Rusty BB, Red-winged and Starling.
I counted at least 70 birds in the one treetop and there were about 10 more in another. Again we got the scope on them and everyone was able to look at the different plummages. There was a White Pine next to this tree, and several birds flew to this tree, which was loaded with cones, and started feeding on or around the cones.
I hope they hang around so others might find them. I have never seen so many Rusty's at once in winter plummage. I am sure there could be variations on these Rusty plummages. It was really exciting to see so many.
Gladys Birdsall
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The SNOWY EGRET was present early this morning in the same area, along the
rocky shore of the river just at the mouth of the main pool
outflow/spillway ("carp spot") along the drive. It was reported this
afternoon from the same area on eBird as well. Other highlights from a
quick morning trip were 50 Dunlin and two White-rumped Sandpipers in the
flooded (and mostly frozen) fields on Armitage Road, and a single HUDSONIAN
GODWIT on the ice at Knox-Marsellus.
Jay
On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 3:41 PM John Gregoire <johnandsuegregoire...>
wrote:
> We went up today and the Snowy was a no-show as we checked the expected
> areas. Lots if birders. A terrific selection of waterfowl made the trip
> worthwhile.
> John and Sue
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:57 AM Suan Hsi Yong <suan.yong...>
> wrote:
>
>> Photos were posted to the Facebook group "Birds of Montezuma National
>> Wildlife Refuge" by Bob and Diane Slater on Monday, November 13, at
>> 6:30pm. A comment says "it flew in front of us around 4:30 pm, in the
>> dead tree near the Eagle tree".
>>
>> The post URL is
>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/172217523476266/posts/1688992451798758/ >> but I think it's only visible to members of that group.
>>
>> Suan
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 9:16 PM Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Today I learned of - and eventually saw - a regionally rare Snowy Egret
>> along the Wildlife Drive at Montezuma National Wildlife Refuge.
>> >
>> > I first learned of it from a text rare bird alert from Mark Miller at
>> 10:25am that it was “last seen at Seneca Flats,” but I wondered about
>> Mark’s use of passive voice and the lack of any picture from this avid
>> photographer. As I prepared to look for the bird there was not yet any
>> eBird report from Mark either.
>> >
>> > But there was an eBird report from earlier this morning by David
>> Kennedy, who takes gorgeous photos and seems to either find, re-find, or
>> document most of the rarities around Montezuma. He included 5 pictures with
>> the comment that it was “Feeding along east shore of Seneca Flats,” and in
>> this case it was a re-find because he said it was “seen and photographed by
>> Bob S. yesterday.”
>> >
>> > This appears to be the first documented record of Snowy Egret in the
>> Cayuga Lake Basin this year, and as I try to maintain First Records records
>> list, I’m looking for some help. Who is Bob S? Can I find the photo and
>> record of his sighting? Where did he see it? At this point I’m not trying
>> to verify the ID, I’m just looking for the standard information and credit
>> that I include on the list.
>> >
>> > Today, thanks to text rare bird alert messages, several additional
>> people saw this small, active egret at various places along the Wildlife
>> Drive’s first straightaway, and the adjacent Seneca River. Generally it
>> progressed north from Seneca Flats. It’s hard to say where it will be
>> tomorrow, but I hope that, if it sticks around in publicly accessible
>> places, folks continue to share its whereabouts so others can see this
>> beautiful bird.
>> >
>> > - - Dave Nutter
>> > --
>> > Cayugabirds-L List Info:
>> > Welcome and Basics
>> > Rules and Information
>> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
>> > Archives:
>> > The Mail Archive
>> > Surfbirds
>> > ABA
>> > Please submit your observations to eBird!
>> > --
>>
>> --
>>
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>> 3) aba_DOT_org/birding-news/
>>
>> Please submit your observations to eBird:
>> ebird_DOT_org/content/ebird/
>>
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We went up today and the Snowy was a no-show as we checked the expected
areas. Lots if birders. A terrific selection of waterfowl made the trip
worthwhile.
John and Sue
On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:57 AM Suan Hsi Yong <suan.yong...> wrote:
> Photos were posted to the Facebook group "Birds of Montezuma National
> Wildlife Refuge" by Bob and Diane Slater on Monday, November 13, at
> 6:30pm. A comment says "it flew in front of us around 4:30 pm, in the
> dead tree near the Eagle tree".
>
> The post URL is
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/172217523476266/posts/1688992451798758/ > but I think it's only visible to members of that group.
>
> Suan
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 9:16 PM Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> wrote:
> >
> > Today I learned of - and eventually saw - a regionally rare Snowy Egret
> along the Wildlife Drive at Montezuma National Wildlife Refuge.
> >
> > I first learned of it from a text rare bird alert from Mark Miller at
> 10:25am that it was “last seen at Seneca Flats,” but I wondered about
> Mark’s use of passive voice and the lack of any picture from this avid
> photographer. As I prepared to look for the bird there was not yet any
> eBird report from Mark either.
> >
> > But there was an eBird report from earlier this morning by David
> Kennedy, who takes gorgeous photos and seems to either find, re-find, or
> document most of the rarities around Montezuma. He included 5 pictures with
> the comment that it was “Feeding along east shore of Seneca Flats,” and in
> this case it was a re-find because he said it was “seen and photographed by
> Bob S. yesterday.”
> >
> > This appears to be the first documented record of Snowy Egret in the
> Cayuga Lake Basin this year, and as I try to maintain First Records records
> list, I’m looking for some help. Who is Bob S? Can I find the photo and
> record of his sighting? Where did he see it? At this point I’m not trying
> to verify the ID, I’m just looking for the standard information and credit
> that I include on the list.
> >
> > Today, thanks to text rare bird alert messages, several additional
> people saw this small, active egret at various places along the Wildlife
> Drive’s first straightaway, and the adjacent Seneca River. Generally it
> progressed north from Seneca Flats. It’s hard to say where it will be
> tomorrow, but I hope that, if it sticks around in publicly accessible
> places, folks continue to share its whereabouts so others can see this
> beautiful bird.
> >
> > - - Dave Nutter
> > --
> > Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> > Welcome and Basics
> > Rules and Information
> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> > Archives:
> > The Mail Archive
> > Surfbirds
> > ABA
> > Please submit your observations to eBird!
> > --
>
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>
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> Please submit your observations to eBird:
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I should follow up and say that that Facebook group has become
immensely popular, currently with 11.4K members, and may well have the
broadest reach of any electronic group related to birds in the basin
(though they still lose out to "Bald Eagles of Onondaga Lake" with
18.8K members), and may well be "required reading" (or viewing) for
those wanting to keep tabs on sightings at the MNWR.
Suan
On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 10:57 AM Suan Hsi Yong <suan.yong...> wrote:
>
> Photos were posted to the Facebook group "Birds of Montezuma National
> Wildlife Refuge" by Bob and Diane Slater on Monday, November 13, at
> 6:30pm. A comment says "it flew in front of us around 4:30 pm, in the
> dead tree near the Eagle tree".
>
> The post URL is
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/172217523476266/posts/1688992451798758/ > but I think it's only visible to members of that group.
>
> Suan
>
>
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Photos were posted to the Facebook group "Birds of Montezuma National
Wildlife Refuge" by Bob and Diane Slater on Monday, November 13, at
6:30pm. A comment says "it flew in front of us around 4:30 pm, in the
dead tree near the Eagle tree".
On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 9:16 PM Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> wrote:
>
> Today I learned of - and eventually saw - a regionally rare Snowy Egret along the Wildlife Drive at Montezuma National Wildlife Refuge.
>
> I first learned of it from a text rare bird alert from Mark Miller at 10:25am that it was “last seen at Seneca Flats,” but I wondered about Mark’s use of passive voice and the lack of any picture from this avid photographer. As I prepared to look for the bird there was not yet any eBird report from Mark either.
>
> But there was an eBird report from earlier this morning by David Kennedy, who takes gorgeous photos and seems to either find, re-find, or document most of the rarities around Montezuma. He included 5 pictures with the comment that it was “Feeding along east shore of Seneca Flats,” and in this case it was a re-find because he said it was “seen and photographed by Bob S. yesterday.”
>
> This appears to be the first documented record of Snowy Egret in the Cayuga Lake Basin this year, and as I try to maintain First Records records list, I’m looking for some help. Who is Bob S? Can I find the photo and record of his sighting? Where did he see it? At this point I’m not trying to verify the ID, I’m just looking for the standard information and credit that I include on the list.
>
> Today, thanks to text rare bird alert messages, several additional people saw this small, active egret at various places along the Wildlife Drive’s first straightaway, and the adjacent Seneca River. Generally it progressed north from Seneca Flats. It’s hard to say where it will be tomorrow, but I hope that, if it sticks around in publicly accessible places, folks continue to share its whereabouts so others can see this beautiful bird.
>
> - - Dave Nutter
> --
> Cayugabirds-L List Info:
> Welcome and Basics
> Rules and Information
> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave
> Archives:
> The Mail Archive
> Surfbirds
> ABA
> Please submit your observations to eBird!
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Andrea Patterson, Station Director at the Braddock Bay Bird Observatory, is the featured speaker for the November 16 meeting of the Chemung Valley Audubon Society. BBBO is located in Hilton, NY, on the south shore of Lake Ontario. Founded in 1994, the station's focus includes primary ornithological research, bird bander education and public engagement with wild birds. Volunteers at BBBO's avian research facility band thousands of birds each spring and fall in an effort to better understand their migratory behavior and ecology.
Please join us this Thursday, in person or by Zoom. Appleridge is wheelchair accessible. Find more events at cvaudubon.org and on Facebook.
Nita Seaberg
Elmira
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Today I learned of - and eventually saw - a regionally rare Snowy Egret along the Wildlife Drive at Montezuma National Wildlife Refuge.
I first learned of it from a text rare bird alert from Mark Miller at 10:25am that it was “last seen at Seneca Flats,” but I wondered about Mark’s use of passive voice and the lack of any picture from this avid photographer. As I prepared to look for the bird there was not yet any eBird report from Mark either.
But there was an eBird report from earlier this morning by David Kennedy, who takes gorgeous photos and seems to either find, re-find, or document most of the rarities around Montezuma. He included 5 pictures with the comment that it was “Feeding along east shore of Seneca Flats,” and in this case it was a re-find because he said it was “seen and photographed by Bob S. yesterday.”
This appears to be the first documented record of Snowy Egret in the Cayuga Lake Basin this year, and as I try to maintain First Records records list, I’m looking for some help. Who is Bob S? Can I find the photo and record of his sighting? Where did he see it? At this point I’m not trying to verify the ID, I’m just looking for the standard information and credit that I include on the list.
Today, thanks to text rare bird alert messages, several additional people saw this small, active egret at various places along the Wildlife Drive’s first straightaway, and the adjacent Seneca River. Generally it progressed north from Seneca Flats. It’s hard to say where it will be tomorrow, but I hope that, if it sticks around in publicly accessible places, folks continue to share its whereabouts so others can see this beautiful bird.
- - Dave Nutter
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Date: 11/9/23 8:25 pm From: Colleen Richards <clr82...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Speaker dinner for the Cayuga Bird Club November meeting
The November meeting of the Cayuga Bird Club will be next Monday, November 13, 2023, 7:30pm at Foundation of Light, 391 Turkey Hill Rd, Ithaca, NY 14850.
Our speaker will be Meena Haribal, naturalist, photographer, and long time Cayuga Bird Club member. Come join us as she presents "Desert Hopping for Birds and Wildlife".
Please note that there will be a speaker dinner at 5:30 before the meeting at the Sumo Restaurant in the Cayuga Mall (Triphammer Rd.). Please rsvp to <clr82...> by noon Monday (11/13) so reservations can be made. Colleen Richards
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Date: 11/9/23 2:16 pm From: Wes Blauvelt <ravenbarnconsulting...> Subject: Re:[cayugabirds-l] Cayuga Bird Club field trip to Franklin Mountain Hawkwatch
Please note date corrrection…. Saturday, November 11th. Apologies for any
confusion.
On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 3:00 PM Wes Blauvelt <ravenbarnconsulting...>
wrote:
>
>
> The Franklin Mountain Hawkwatch, sponsored by the Delaware-Otsego Audubon
> Society, has been an active raptor survey site for 30+ years. Located at
> the DOAS sanctuary overlooking Oneonta and the Susquehanna River valley, it
> is about a 2 hour drive from Ithaca.
>
> Those wishing to participate in this trip will assemble at the East Hill
> Plaza on Pine Tree Road at 7:45 AM for an 8:00 AM departure. The trip will
> take place on Saturday, November 12th. Forecasted Northwest winds are
> predicted to create ideal conditions at the sanctuary as migrating raptors
> use lift near the observation site. This can result in close views of the
> migrating raptors. This week there has been a nice movement of Red-tailed
> Hawks, Red-shouldered Hawks and Golden Eagles.
>
> Plan to spend the day in the open at 2000’ elevation. There is no shelter
> at the sanctuary, so please dress accordingly. Bring a snack/lunch and
> thermos with a warm beverage. There is a port-a-john at the site. We will
> plan to start our return trip by 2:30 PM. If you are planning to attend,
> please send me a note at <wwblauvelt...>
>
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Date: 11/9/23 12:01 pm From: Wes Blauvelt <ravenbarnconsulting...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Cayuga Bird Club field trip to Franklin Mountain Hawkwatch
The Franklin Mountain Hawkwatch, sponsored by the Delaware-Otsego Audubon
Society, has been an active raptor survey site for 30+ years. Located at
the DOAS sanctuary overlooking Oneonta and the Susquehanna River valley, it
is about a 2 hour drive from Ithaca.
Those wishing to participate in this trip will assemble at the East Hill
Plaza on Pine Tree Road at 7:45 AM for an 8:00 AM departure. The trip will
take place on Saturday, November 12th. Forecasted Northwest winds are
predicted to create ideal conditions at the sanctuary as migrating raptors
use lift near the observation site. This can result in close views of the
migrating raptors. This week there has been a nice movement of Red-tailed
Hawks, Red-shouldered Hawks and Golden Eagles.
Plan to spend the day in the open at 2000’ elevation. There is no shelter
at the sanctuary, so please dress accordingly. Bring a snack/lunch and
thermos with a warm beverage. There is a port-a-john at the site. We will
plan to start our return trip by 2:30 PM. If you are planning to attend,
please send me a note at <wwblauvelt...>
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Date: 11/7/23 5:23 am From: Colleen Richards <clr82...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Cayuga Bird Club November meeting
The November meeting of the Cayuga Bird Club will be next Monday, November 13, 2023, 7:30pm at Foundation of Light, 391 Turkey Hill Rd, Ithaca, NY 14850.
Our speaker will be Meena Haribal, naturalist, photographer, and long time Cayuga Bird Club member. Come join us as she presents "Desert Hopping for Birds and Wildlife".
This past year Meena was able to visit various kinds of deserts to observe their fauna and flora.Traveling from the hot, tropical Thar desert of Rajasthan, India, to the temperate sand dunes of Nebraska and to the cold high altitude of the Tibetan desert of Ladakh. On her travels, she observed iconic birds such as the endangered Great Indian Bustard (only about 250 of them left), various vultures, Hoopoe Lark, Greater Prairie Chickens, Sage Grouse and the endangered Black-necked Cranes that migrate from Ladakh, east to Bhutan. There were also several mammals like Tibetan Gazelle, Kiang and the extremely rare and elusive apex predator, Snow Leopard. Meena will share the experiences and challenges of observing this unique fauna with photos and videos. About the Speaker: Meena is an ardent naturalist and traveler around the world in search of nature. She has been a member of the Cayuga Bird Club for almost 30 years and has shared many fascinating presentations about her travels. Meena has filled the club roles of President and field trip chair in the past, and has led many field trips herself. She fondly remembers her first trip with the Cayuga Bird Club in March of 1993, an afternoon trip in search of Short-eared Owls. To attend the trip, she hiked from Schuyler House in downtown Ithaca to the Lab of O, a distance of about 5 miles, only to find that the trip went to the West side of the lake via downtown! Here she met Linda Clougherty and Ngampit Jagacinski for the first time, who later offered rides to many of the club trips. Stay tuned for information concerning a speaker dinner before the meeting.
Colleen Richards
Corresponding Secretary
Cayuga Bird Club
Cayuga Bird Club meetings are held on the second Monday of each month, September through June, and are free and open to the public. In-person meetings start with social time at 7:00pm, the reading of the bird list at 7:20pm, and club business at 7:30pm, followed by the speaker's presentation starting around 8:00pm and ending by 9:00pm. For the remainder of the 2023-24 season, in-person meetings are held at Foundation of Light on Turkey Hill Road. Note that the January and February meetings are Zoom-only virtual meetings. We will attempt to make presentations available virtually as a recording posted a few days later, on our YouTube channel @cayugabirdclub. Some meetings may shift to Zoom if warranted by circumstances.
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Date: 11/6/23 12:25 pm From: Kenneth V. Rosenberg <kvr2...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] English bird names
Sorry! I meant to say go to 9:40!
Ken Rosenberg (he/him/his)
Applied Conservation Scientist, Retired
Cornell Lab of Ornithology
<Kvr2...><mailto:<Kvr2...> Cell: 607-342-4594
From: <tess...> <tess...>
Date: Monday, November 6, 2023 at 12:55 PM
To: Kenneth V. Rosenberg <kvr2...>
Cc: CAYUGABIRDS-L <CAYUGABIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] English bird names
Initially I was confused by Ken's link ,but starting at 9:40 if becomes relevant and funny.
Alicia
On 11/6/2023 11:10 AM, Kenneth V. Rosenberg wrote:
At least topic is getting some attention!
The Committee seems not to have considered the question of costs that individual birders might bear, but for the AOS itself it found (pp 25-26):
Administrative support for this step will not be trivial. For the public comment period, interactive
platform(s) will need to be set up in order to moderate and accept the desired input. For
broadcasting new names and general publicity, substantial investment will likely need to be
made for setting up workflows to track and manage web and social media communications,
publish press releases, and handle media relations. ...
We recognize this process is potentially costly. If the cost is prohibitive, then partnerships with
other bird-focused organizations may be a step to consider. Different organizations could pool
resources to implement each step of the public engagement process and take ownership of
different steps in the workflow. This collaboration will add another layer of complexity in project
management and require time for strategic planning discussions (e.g., reconciling institutional
priorities, actively facilitating dynamics to ensure different groups do not feel differently treated
because of what they might be able to contribute).
In answer to John's other question, the committee recommended as follows on pp 9-10:
The committee is also not making recommendations on scientific names. As in all of
zoology, avian scientific naming procedures follow the International Code of Zoological
Nomenclature (ICZN), which is beyond the purview of the AOS. The International
Commission on Zoological Nomenclature recently established its position opposing the
use of ethical reasons alone to justify the renaming of scientific Latin names of taxa.
So if this is indeed how it play's out, wilsonii can continue as a species name for the Cuban Kite (so long as it survives) and Wilson's Plover. However the genus Wilsonii disappeared when based on genetic studies, Hooded Warbler was moved to Setophaga and Wilson's & Canada were placed in Cardellina in 2011.
Alicia
On 11/6/2023 7:45 AM, John Gregoire wrote:
Thanks for that. A couple of issues. One is the resulting heavy cost of change, Think checklists,alphanumeric codes, field guides are three that immediately come to mind. When we did the second printing of the National Geo guide, we opted to new editions and not an errata list of changes. My plant guides are already full of redactions and pen/ink changes.
Second is the question of not changing scientific names. Does this mean that the Wilsonia will remain intact?
John
On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 7:12 AM Linda Orkin <wingmagic16...><mailto:<wingmagic16...>> wrote:
Very interesting Irene. Thank you for providing this document!
Linda Orkin
On Nov 5, 2023, at 2:04 PM, Irene Liu <il275...><mailto:<il275...>> wrote:
Hi everyone, I was a member of the ad hoc English Bird Names committee. Great to read everyone's comments and to know that people are reflecting on the recommendations we wrote. I encourage those wondering about why we endorsed removing all eponyms, including eponyms honoring people who made important contributions to ornithology, to read our justification for that particular recommendation here: here: https://americanornithology.org/about/english-bird-names-project/english-bird-names-committee-recommendations/#justification
Apologies if I'm duplicating anyone else's response. I receive the digest and so am not reading messages in real time.
The Committee seems not to have considered the question of costs that individual birders might bear, but for the AOS itself it found (pp 25-26):
Administrative support for this step will not be trivial. For the public comment period, interactive
platform(s) will need to be set up in order to moderate and accept the desired input. For
broadcasting new names and general publicity, substantial investment will likely need to be
made for setting up workflows to track and manage web and social media communications,
publish press releases, and handle media relations. ...
We recognize this process is potentially costly. If the cost is prohibitive, then partnerships with
other bird-focused organizations may be a step to consider. Different organizations could pool
resources to implement each step of the public engagement process and take ownership of
different steps in the workflow. This collaboration will add another layer of complexity in project
management and require time for strategic planning discussions (e.g., reconciling institutional
priorities, actively facilitating dynamics to ensure different groups do not feel differently treated
because of what they might be able to contribute).
In answer to John's other question, the committee recommended as follows on pp 9-10:
The committee is also not making recommendations on scientific names. As in all of
zoology, avian scientific naming procedures follow the International Code of Zoological
Nomenclature (ICZN), which is beyond the purview of the AOS. The International
Commission on Zoological Nomenclature recently established its position opposing the
use of ethical reasons alone to justify the renaming of scientific Latin names of taxa.
So if this is indeed how it play's out, wilsonii can continue as a species name for the Cuban Kite (so long as it survives) and Wilson's Plover. However the genus Wilsonii disappeared when based on genetic studies, Hooded Warbler was moved to Setophaga and Wilson's & Canada were placed in Cardellina in 2011.
Alicia
On 11/6/2023 7:45 AM, John Gregoire wrote:
Thanks for that. A couple of issues. One is the resulting heavy cost of change, Think checklists,alphanumeric codes, field guides are three that immediately come to mind. When we did the second printing of the National Geo guide, we opted to new editions and not an errata list of changes. My plant guides are already full of redactions and pen/ink changes.
Second is the question of not changing scientific names. Does this mean that the Wilsonia will remain intact?
John
On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 7:12 AM Linda Orkin <wingmagic16...><mailto:<wingmagic16...>> wrote:
Very interesting Irene. Thank you for providing this document!
Linda Orkin
On Nov 5, 2023, at 2:04 PM, Irene Liu <il275...><mailto:<il275...>> wrote:
Hi everyone, I was a member of the ad hoc English Bird Names committee. Great to read everyone's comments and to know that people are reflecting on the recommendations we wrote. I encourage those wondering about why we endorsed removing all eponyms, including eponyms honoring people who made important contributions to ornithology, to read our justification for that particular recommendation here: here: https://americanornithology.org/about/english-bird-names-project/english-bird-names-committee-recommendations/#justification
Apologies if I'm duplicating anyone else's response. I receive the digest and so am not reading messages in real time.
The Committee seems not to have considered the question of costs that individual birders might bear, but for the AOS itself it found (pp 25-26): > Administrative support for this step will not be trivial. For the > public comment period, interactive > platform(s) will need to be set up in order to moderate and accept the > desired input. For > broadcasting new names and general publicity, substantial investment > will likely need to be > made for setting up workflows to track and manage web and social media > communications, > publish press releases, and handle media relations. ... > We recognize this process is potentially costly. If the cost is > prohibitive, then partnerships with > other bird-focused organizations may be a step to consider. Different > organizations could pool > resources to implement each step of the public engagement process and > take ownership of > different steps in the workflow. This collaboration will add another > layer of complexity in project > management and require time for strategic planning discussions (e.g., > reconciling institutional > priorities, actively facilitating dynamics to ensure different groups > do not feel differently treated > because of what they might be able to contribute).
In answer to John's other question, the committee recommended as follows on pp 9-10: > The committee is also not making recommendations on scientific names. > As in all of > zoology, avian scientific naming procedures follow the International > Code of Zoological > Nomenclature (ICZN), which is beyond the purview of the AOS. The > International > Commission on Zoological Nomenclature recently established its > position opposing the > use of ethical reasons alone to justify the renaming of scientific > Latin names of taxa. So if this is indeed how it play's out, /wilsonii /can continue as a species name for the Cuban Kite (so long as it survives) and Wilson's Plover. However the genus /Wilsonii/ disappeared when based on genetic studies, Hooded Warbler was moved to /Setophaga/ and Wilson's & Canada were placed in /Cardellina/ in 2011.
Date: 11/6/23 5:25 am From: Jody Enck <jodyenck...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] English bird names
I also want to thank Irene Liu for posting the link to the full explanatory
document. After paying attention to this discussion since the idea first
emerged a couple years ago, I will say that my biggest take home message is
that there is great benefit in having thoughtful discussion of any idea.
Irene's link provides lots of evidence that thoughtful discussion
happened. When I read the document, points were raised that I could never
have dreamed of on my own. My imagination was expanded and my
understanding was deepened. Like many others, I was lukewarm on the idea
at first, and now am very supportive of it for reasons that never would
have occurred to me if I just considered the idea in the vacuum of my own
living room. The points laid out in the link Irene provided helped me look
at the issue with a different perspective. Having access to that document
highlighting and summarizing a lengthy set of discussions was awesome.
Thanks again for that, Irene.
Also, bird names change every year, following another proscribed process
that most folks may not know about. Sometimes it is the common name that
is changed, but most often it is the scientific name as ornithologists'
understanding of taxonomic relationships deepens. About a decade ago, "our
warblers" underwent a huge taxonomic rearrangement that included the
elimination of the genus "Dendroica" which was the genus name for a large
number of warblers at that time. Most were moved into the genus Setophaga.
Wilson's Warbler, which had been in the genus Wilsonia was rearranged into
the genus Cardellina (along with Canada Warbler). So, John, Wisonia has
not existed for several years!
This year, lots of shorebirds that are familiar to us here in central NY
have been rearranged taxonomically, with some in new genera, and many
rearranged in terms of which ones are most closely related to which other
ones (which ones come first, second, third, etc. in the taxonomic list).
In the birding world, names change on a frequent basis because
ornithologists are trying to get it right. Most of the time, the "it" is
science. Sometimes "it" is naming conventions as in getting the Greek or
Latin right, changing plural endings to singular endings, changing an "a"
to an "us" at the end of the species name, etc. This announced change is
just another form of naming convention change that happens quite
frequently. I like that there is so much communication about this
particular upcoming change.
Jody
Jody W. Enck, PhD
Conservation Social Scientist, and
Founder of the Sister Bird Club Network
607-379-5940
On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 7:46 AM John Gregoire <johnandsuegregoire...>
wrote:
Date: 11/6/23 4:46 am From: John Gregoire <johnandsuegregoire...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] English bird names
Thanks for that. A couple of issues. One is the resulting heavy cost of
change, Think checklists,alphanumeric codes, field guides are three that
immediately come to mind. When we did the second printing of the National
Geo guide, we opted to new editions and not an errata list of changes. My
plant guides are already full of redactions and pen/ink changes.
Second is the question of not changing scientific names. Does this mean
that the Wilsonia will remain intact?
John
On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 7:12 AM Linda Orkin <wingmagic16...> wrote:
Date: 11/5/23 11:04 am From: Irene Liu <il275...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] English bird names
Hi everyone, I was a member of the ad hoc English Bird Names committee. Great to read everyone's comments and to know that people are reflecting on the recommendations we wrote. I encourage those wondering about why we endorsed removing all eponyms, including eponyms honoring people who made important contributions to ornithology, to read our justification for that particular recommendation here: here: https://americanornithology.org/about/english-bird-names-project/english-bird-names-committee-recommendations/#justification
Apologies if I'm duplicating anyone else's response. I receive the digest and so am not reading messages in real time.
Cheers,
Irene Liu
Ithaca, NY
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Date: 11/4/23 8:41 pm From: <tess...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Fwd: [The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring enslavers and racists will be changed
To respond to a few things Carl raised:
* Relatively few of these birds were named for the white people who first described them. In most cases the describer named them to honor someone else - Henslow's Sparrow, for example, was named by Audubon in honor of Rev. John Henslow, who was a botanist and also a mentor to Charles Darwin. * The American Ornithological Society report says they are not recommending changes to the Latin scientific names unless/until there is evidence that makes the present name incorrect scientifically (splitting, lumping, new DNA findings showing the genus is wrong, etc.). * Other misleading or unhelpful names will not be reviewed. We still will have Red-Bellied Woodpeckers, Tree Sparrows, Evening Grosbeaks, and Ring-Necked Ducks, as well as Nashville, Connecticut, Kentucky, Tennessee, Palm, and Cape May Warblers.. * Baltimore Oriole will be unchanged. The AOS has ruled that the bird was named not in honor of Lord Baltimore, but after the colors in his coat of arms. Never mind that the colors in his actual coat of arms, which you can see on the Maryland State flag & license plate - or in wikipedia - actually were black & /yellow/, not black & orange. Possibly this exception has more to do with the Baltimore Oriole being the best known of the birds involved and the one whose name change would be least likely to be accepted by the non-birding public, including ticket holders at Camden Yards? The AOS may also remember how little success they had with "Northern Oriole" a few years back.
The AOS Committee was directed to “develop a process that will allow the [AOS] to change harmful and exclusionary English bird names in a thoughtful and proactive way for species within AOS’s purview." But instead of developing a thoughtful process, the majority of its members endorsed wholesale elimination of all honorary names. 'Wilson's Warbler' would have survived had they respected their original charge: Wilson was a penniless immigrant, a self-taught naturalist who always was scrounging for money to pay for his materials and treks, and who died of "dysentery, overwork, and chronic poverty." When he went looking for birds in the southern states he found the area disagreeable and deplored what he saw of slavery there. He also was really interesting & worth reading up on. He left Scotland in 1794 after he had been fined and jailed for publishing poems that sympathized with the conditions suffered by mill workers and satirized the mill owners. In America in 1804 he walked 1300 miles from Philadelphia to Niagara Falls and wrote a long, detailed report about it - in verse! In over 80 pages and 2200 lines of poetry, with an additional 24 pages of footnotes, he describes what he encountered along the way, including what he found in what now is the Catherine Valley, Watkins Glen, and Ovid. And he was the first person to try to formally describe and illustrate all the birds of North American, collecting 268 species in his nine-volume /American Ornithology /(1808-1814) which was incomplete when he died at age 47.
When you have learned more about Wilson, check out Georg Wilhelm Steller, another early ornithologist whose life would be unlikely to be seen as harmful or exclusionary but whose adventures led to increased knowledge of the peoples, birds, fish, plants, and sea mammals found on both sides of the Bering Sea.
I only know about these men because of the various birds named for Wilson, and the Steller's Sea Eagle who has been wandering around the northeastern part of our continent for the past two years - the names of those birds prompted me to learn more about the people behind the names. It is a shame that now the stories of both men are destined to fall even further beneath the radar. They were courageous and even inspirational naturalists.
Alicia
P.S. If Google translate is to be trusted, the name for Steller's Sea Eagle in Japanese, オオワシ, translates as "Wow Eagle." If it can't be Steller's, I hereby nominate Wow Eagle as its new common name.
On 11/4/2023 4:43 PM, Carl Steckler wrote: > > I agree Dave, but I feel it is the right decision for the wrong > reasons. Changing the names to better describe the bird, good. > > Changing the name because of what someone did in the past is wrong. > > you really have to look at the person in the context of their time, > their morals and their laws. > > If the bird was named for someone other than the discoverer, then by > all means change it. > > But if it is named after the person who discovered the bird you really > have to consider the contributions made by this person and ask do they > outweigh the faults? > > And what about the Latin names. A lot of them are named for people. > Are we going to change those also? > > Again while I am in favor of changing the names to better describe the > birds, let that be the reason for the change and not for any agenda > which may or may not have anything to do with ornithology. > > It is a slippery slope we climb my friends. > > Ornamythelogy. The belief that you will actully see the bird every one > else is reporting. > > Carl > > > On 11/3/2023 23:56, Dave Nutter wrote: >> Bird names for birds. Cool concept. The article includes many good >> reasons. We will have to learn some new names for old birds. I look >> forward to this. >> >> In many cases, the person who first described a species for science >> decided to name it after someone who had nothing to do with the bird, >> making the people-name even more irrelevant to the bird. >> >> I hope one of the benefits of the new names will be that they relate >> better to the birds’ appearance, behavior, or habitat. This will make >> the species and their field marks easier to learn and remember, >> which I think will be more welcoming to all new birders as well as to >> any birders traveling to unfamiliar areas. I struggle with many >> western North American species named for people. >> >> Also, Kenn Kaufmann’s story is classic. >> >> - - Dave Nutter >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> *Subject:* *[The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring >>> enslavers and racists will be changed* >>> >>> The American Ornithological Society says it will alter all human >>> names of North American birds, starting with up to 80 species. >>> https://wapo.st/3Mr8fDw >>> >> -- >> *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* >> Welcome and Basics >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME.htm> >> Rules and Information >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES.htm> >> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave >> <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> >> *Archives:* >> The Mail Archive >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/<cayugabirds-l...>/maillist.html> >> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> >> ABA <https://www.aba.org/birding-news/> >> *Please submit your observations to eBird >> <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* >> -- > -- > *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME.htm> > Rules and Information > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES.htm> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/<cayugabirds-l...>/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> > ABA <https://www.aba.org/birding-news/> > *Please submit your observations to eBird > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* > --
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Date: 11/4/23 4:16 pm From: Judith Thurber <jathurber...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Fwd: [The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring enslavers and racists will be changed
I agree with you.
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Saturday, November 4, 2023, 4:43 PM, Carl Steckler <cjs9...> wrote:
I agree Dave, but I feel it is the right decision for the wrong reasons. Changing the names to better describe the bird, good.
Changing the name because of what someone did in the past is wrong.
you really have to look at the person in the context of their time, their morals and their laws.
If the bird was named for someone other than the discoverer, then by all means change it.
But if it is named after the person who discovered the bird you really have to consider the contributions made by this person and ask do they outweigh the faults?
And what about the Latin names. A lot of them are named for people. Are we going to change those also?
Again while I am in favor of changing the names to better describe the birds, let that be the reason for the change and not for any agenda which may or may not have anything to do with ornithology.
It is a slippery slope we climb my friends.
Ornamythelogy. The belief that you will actully see the bird every one else is reporting.
Carl
On 11/3/2023 23:56, Dave Nutter wrote:
Bird names for birds. Cool concept. The article includes many good reasons. We will have to learn some new names for old birds. I look forward to this.
In many cases, the person who first described a species for science decided to name it after someone who had nothing to do with the bird, making the people-name even more irrelevant to the bird.
I hope one of the benefits of the new names will be that they relate better to the birds’ appearance, behavior, or habitat. This will make the species and their field marks easier to learn and remember, which I think will be more welcoming to all new birders as well as to any birders traveling to unfamiliar areas. I struggle with many western North American species named for people.
Also, Kenn Kaufmann’s story is classic.
- - Dave Nutter
Begin forwarded message:
Subject: [The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring enslavers and racists will be changed
The American Ornithological Society says it will alter all human names of North American birds, starting with up to 80 species.
https://wapo.st/3Mr8fDw
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Date: 11/4/23 1:43 pm From: Carl Steckler <cjs9...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Fwd: [The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring enslavers and racists will be changed
I agree Dave, but I feel it is the right decision for the wrong reasons. Changing the names to better describe the bird, good.
Changing the name because of what someone did in the past is wrong.
you really have to look at the person in the context of their time, their morals and their laws.
If the bird was named for someone other than the discoverer, then by all means change it.
But if it is named after the person who discovered the bird you really have to consider the contributions made by this person and ask do they outweigh the faults?
And what about the Latin names. A lot of them are named for people. Are we going to change those also?
Again while I am in favor of changing the names to better describe the birds, let that be the reason for the change and not for any agenda which may or may not have anything to do with ornithology.
It is a slippery slope we climb my friends.
Ornamythelogy. The belief that you will actully see the bird every one else is reporting.
Carl
On 11/3/2023 23:56, Dave Nutter wrote: > Bird names for birds. Cool concept. The article includes many good > reasons. We will have to learn some new names for old birds. I look > forward to this. > > In many cases, the person who first described a species for science > decided to name it after someone who had nothing to do with the bird, > making the people-name even more irrelevant to the bird. > > I hope one of the benefits of the new names will be that they relate > better to the birds’ appearance, behavior, or habitat. This will make > the species and their field marks easier to learn and remember, > which I think will be more welcoming to all new birders as well as to > any birders traveling to unfamiliar areas. I struggle with many > western North American species named for people. > > Also, Kenn Kaufmann’s story is classic. > > - - Dave Nutter > > Begin forwarded message: > >> *Subject:* *[The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring >> enslavers and racists will be changed* >> >> The American Ornithological Society says it will alter all human >> names of North American birds, starting with up to 80 species. >> https://wapo.st/3Mr8fDw >> > -- > *Cayugabirds-L List Info:* > Welcome and Basics > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsWELCOME.htm> > Rules and Information > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsRULES.htm> > Subscribe, Configuration and Leave > <http://www.northeastbirding.com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> > *Archives:* > The Mail Archive > <http://www.mail-archive.com/<cayugabirds-l...>/maillist.html> > Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/Cayugabirds> > ABA <https://www.aba.org/birding-news/> > *Please submit your observations to eBird > <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/>!* > -- --
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Date: 11/4/23 4:39 am From: Linda Orkin <wingmagic16...> Subject: Re: [cayugabirds-l] Fwd: [The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring enslavers and racists will be changed
Date: 11/3/23 8:56 pm From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Fwd: [The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring enslavers and racists will be changed
Bird names for birds. Cool concept. The article includes many good reasons. We will have to learn some new names for old birds. I look forward to this.
In many cases, the person who first described a species for science decided to name it after someone who had nothing to do with the bird, making the people-name even more irrelevant to the bird.
I hope one of the benefits of the new names will be that they relate better to the birds’ appearance, behavior, or habitat. This will make the species and their field marks easier to learn and remember, which I think will be more welcoming to all new birders as well as to any birders traveling to unfamiliar areas. I struggle with many western North American species named for people.
Also, Kenn Kaufmann’s story is classic.
- - Dave Nutter
Begin forwarded message:
> Subject: [The Washington Post] Dozens of bird names honoring enslavers and racists will be changed
>
> The American Ornithological Society says it will alter all human names of North American birds, starting with up to 80 species.
> https://wapo.st/3Mr8fDw >
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Date: 11/3/23 9:00 am From: Dave Nutter <nutter.dave...> Subject: [cayugabirds-l] Limpkin seen 10/31 & 11/1
There are eBird reports of the Limpkin in Elmira continuing on October 31st, when it was on the ballfields and road within Pirozzolo Park, and on November 1st when it was also photographed in the open. There are no eBird reports as yet that I have seen for yesterday (November 2nd) or today. Perhaps it’s a coincidence that there was a cold snap. Maybe people have quit looking. If you have searched for it since, please report whether or not you have found it. Thanks.
- - Dave Nutter
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*Gorup Size: 12 Register with <mmh3...> <mmh3...>*
It is fall migration time for waterbirds! Expect to see lots of migrating
waterfowl along the lake and MNWR wildlife drive. Plus, there may be a few
lingering shorebirds and birds like American Pipits and Horned Larks. If
you are lucky you may encounter Cave Swallows. Dress for cold weather in
layers, bring gloves and hats. Bring scope if you have and/or binoculars.
Carry water and hot drinks, plus snacks and a lunch. We will stop on the
way at Aurora or some location for food and bathroom.
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Cayugabirds-L List Info:
NortheastBirding_DOT_com/CayugabirdsWELCOME_DOT_htm
NortheastBirding_DOT_com/CayugabirdsRULES_DOT_htm
NortheastBirding_DOT_com/CayugabirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave_DOT_htm
