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Thursday we will meet at Teal Pond at Riverlands at 8 am. Please note that there is a significant chance of rain.
Saturday we will meet at the HQ at Busch Wildlife Area at 8 am.
David Becher
Saint Louis
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/26/23 6:53 am From: Diane Bricmont <colaptes.auratus...> Subject: Black Scoter - St. Charles County
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Just found a Black Scoter in Ellis Bay, just past the Heron Pond parking lot. Rainy and foggy. Northern Flicker providing backup vocals.
Diane Bricmont
STL CO
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/25/23 7:29 pm From: Dianne & Steve Kinder <000000023c9fba03-dmarc-request...> Subject: Chariton and Linn County today.
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Taylor Point at Swan Lake NWR -
Sandhill Crane - 10
White Pelican - 50
Dunlin - 4
Che-Ru Lake on the East side of Fountain Grove CA -
200+ Hooded Merganser on the south end.
Joe Shelby Lake on the west part of Fountain Grove-
120 Gadwall on the North end.
Becoming a Winter Wonderland now in North Missouri!
Steve Kinder
<dmkinder...>
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/25/23 6:27 pm From: Jean L <jaleonatti...> Subject: No sighting - RGallardo presentation
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Thanks to whomever posted the notice re: Robert Gallardo's presentation today at Runge Nature Center.
I felt privileged to attend. The presentation was great. I was mostly struck by the legacy one person can leave - not just on our knowledge of Honduran birds and butterflies, but on his country's move toward ecotourism, and most importantly on the young people of Honduras. It was awe-inspiring. He was so humble for someone who has achieved so much. And, of course, I'm always moved to hear of Brad Jacob's influence continuing through the work of others.
I made a small donation to the Friends of Emerald Valley in gratitude for the presentation - hope I get to visit there one day.
Date: 11/25/23 8:39 am From: Kirk Suedmeyer <KirkSuedmeyer...> Subject: Re: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
This makes far more sense! Still don’t remember the gates being closed in the past, but they probably rotate the areas of “managed” hunts. Thanks for the clarification!
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From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> On Behalf Of Mary Nemecek
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2023 10:36 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
Burroughs Audubon Society's understanding is driving into the wetlands is closed for managed deer archery hunt until early January. A few weeks ago, after the hunt had started, a park ranger told someone they could walk the road and wetland levy paths. Hunters aren’t supposed to hunt in the wetlands, or take shots over the levies where they might have to pursue an injured animal through the wetlands. As always, it's a good idea to wear some orange, this time of year, when out birding.
I think "closed for the season" refers to deer season. A good resource for questions is Jackson County Parks and Rec administrative office (816) 503-4800. If you find out something different please let me know.
This is the first that I can remember the entrance to the wetlands being closed except in bad weather. Being a mooring ball and dry sail space owner at Jacomo, it’s been my experience that many of the Rangers do not have the answers to questions such as why that gate is now closed.
Doug White
Sent from my iPhone
There is, not a lot though. However the gates are “locked for the season”. Talked to Park Rangers- they just said the gates are closed. I discussed the fact our taxes support the access to the parking lot, the spillway, the Wetlands, etc. etc. and no specific reason given. A supervisor was to call me back but hasn’t. There are now red restricted access signs along the dam saying Keep Out which were not there before. The ranger said- “you can still walk down there”. I think if we voiced loud enough they will open it again- it isn’t handicap accessible I don’t think 😊 Had a great morning at the boat ramp- Pied billed grebes, Horned grebes, coots, gulls, geese, ducks, sparrows, pileated, a Krider’s red-tail, etc. all to be listed in just a bit.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL!!!!
Kirk
(Lee’s summit, MO)
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...><mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...>> On Behalf Of BEstes
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2023 9:28 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...><mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...> Subject: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Is there any water in the Blue Springs Wetland at Fleming Park?
Date: 11/25/23 8:35 am From: Mary Nemecek <0000000585d83684-dmarc-request...> Subject: Re: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
Burroughs Audubon Society's understanding is driving into the wetlands is closed for managed deer archery hunt until early January. A few weeks ago, after the hunt had started, a park ranger told someone they could walk the road and wetland levy paths. Hunters aren’t supposed to hunt in the wetlands, or take shots over the levies where they might have to pursue an injured animal through the wetlands. As always, it's a good idea to wear some orange, this time of year, when out birding.
I think "closed for the season" refers to deer season. A good resource for questions is Jackson County Parks and Rec administrative office (816) 503-4800. If you find out something different please let me know.
Mary NemecekKCMO
"One planet, one experiment." -Edward O. Wilson
On Thursday, November 23, 2023 at 10:44:36 AM CST, Doug White <0000037b816a7fa9-dmarc-request...> wrote:
This is the first that I can remember the entrance to the wetlands being closed except in bad weather. Being a mooring ball and dry sail space owner at Jacomo, it’s been my experience that many of the Rangers do not have the answers to questions such as why that gate is now closed. Doug White
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 23, 2023, at 10:18 AM, Kirk Suedmeyer <KirkSuedmeyer...> wrote:
There is, not a lot though. However the gates are “locked for the season”. Talked to Park Rangers- they just said the gates are closed. I discussed the fact our taxes support the access to the parking lot, the spillway, the Wetlands, etc. etc. and no specific reason given. A supervisor was to call me back but hasn’t. There are now red restricted access signs along the dam saying Keep Out which were not there before. The ranger said- “you can still walk down there”. I think if we voiced loud enough they will open it again- it isn’t handicap accessible I don’t think 😊 Had a great morning at the boat ramp- Pied billed grebes, Horned grebes, coots, gulls, geese, ducks, sparrows, pileated, a Krider’s red-tail, etc. all to be listed in just a bit.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL!!!!
Kirk
(Lee’s summit, MO)
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...>On Behalf Of BEstes
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2023 9:28 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Is there any water in the Blue Springs Wetland at Fleming Park?
Bob Estes
Cedar County
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/24/23 9:56 am From: Terry Stair <00000134fa09d2cc-dmarc-request...> Subject: Winter Visitors
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FOS Red-breasted Nuthatch a welcome visitor at our peanut feeder Thanksgiving Day morning, and again this morning.
Also this morning, good binocular looks at Red Crossbills continuing in pines adjacent to parking lot at Lake Jacomo, Fleming Park, native hoofed animal enclosure.
Karen Stair
Lee's Summit
Jackson County
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/23/23 8:18 am From: Kirk Suedmeyer <KirkSuedmeyer...> Subject: Re: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
There is, not a lot though. However the gates are “locked for the season”. Talked to Park Rangers- they just said the gates are closed. I discussed the fact our taxes support the access to the parking lot, the spillway, the Wetlands, etc. etc. and no specific reason given. A supervisor was to call me back but hasn’t. There are now red restricted access signs along the dam saying Keep Out which were not there before. The ranger said- “you can still walk down there”. I think if we voiced loud enough they will open it again- it isn’t handicap accessible I don’t think 😊 Had a great morning at the boat ramp- Pied billed grebes, Horned grebes, coots, gulls, geese, ducks, sparrows, pileated, a Krider’s red-tail, etc. all to be listed in just a bit.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL!!!!
Kirk
(Lee’s summit, MO)
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> On Behalf Of BEstes
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2023 9:28 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Is there any water in the Blue Springs Wetland at Fleming Park?
Date: 11/23/23 7:27 am From: BEstes <000003321a7933de-dmarc-request...> Subject: no sighting - water at Blue Springs wetland
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Is there any water in the Blue Springs Wetland at Fleming Park?
Bob Estes
Cedar County
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/22/23 4:32 pm From: Jane Frazier <janefraz2828...> Subject: Binder Lake area
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Birds came in roughly dozens today at Binder Lake, Cole County, for me and Shirley Seabaugh. We had about a dozen Hooded Mergansers, about a dozen Bufflehead, and in a pasture on Rainbow nearby about a dozen Turkeys. Yesterday on the lake were 3 Horned Grebes.
Jane Frazier
Jefferson City
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/20/23 12:36 pm From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
Thanks for the additional info, Kristie. Casias moving around that much indicates a serious problem in the home territory where they were so sedentary that they adapted distinctions that led to their becoming a recognized species..
Edge
From: "Kristie Nelson" <storm_petrel...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>, "Media.com" <edgew...>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2023 2:25:00 PM
Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
As Alvaro Jaramillo (a prominant birder) mentioned earlier " The fact that now we know that Cassia Crossbills move around when things get tough in their home range, well that should not be a surprise. Other than Hispaniolan Crossbill, all of the rest of the Red Crossbill group in the New World tends to move around when food in the core range is a problem. It just happens to be that Cassia was particularly stable perhaps due to the lack of Red Squirrels in their core range. "
There's a big push of mountain birds going on! At least some of it has been showing up in Missouri crossbills. More may come.
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> on behalf of Media.com <edgew...>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2023 11:36 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...> <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
As one who made a 4,000 mile looping birding trip in Aug/Sep 2017 with Cassia Crossbill as the primary target bird (seen and heard September 1, 2017), I do not purport to be knowledgeable about crossbills beyond the basics.
The presence of a single bird in a flock in California suggests to me that the hapless critter may have taken off with one of the migratory groups that come through the very limited Cassia Crossbill area in Cassia County (southern) Idaho and now is wandering with that group. The presence of a single bird may or may not indicate a broader range than previously known, but my money is on it getting mixed in with the wrong crowd.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
From: "Kristie Nelson" <storm_petrel...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2023 12:44:15 PM
Subject: Fw: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Hi mobsters -
As many of you have probably noticed, there have been quite a few red crossbills so far this fall in MO.
The irruption is not limited to Missouri, and appears to be involving different crossbill types. Out west, California recently recorded Cassia Crossbill. A species that is appearing to be more nomadic that initially thought.
The California Cassia crossbill spot recently turned up and incredible checklist of FIVE OR SIX different crossbill types within just one or two flocks. Check out the post below. That's totally nuts!
Missouri has recorded 4 different types - so this could be a great year to record unusual types beyond type 2. Try to get a recording if possible. You can take a video with your phone - and there are free apps online (like VLC) where you can save just the sound file from it. Or use Merlin app.
For those unfamiliar - red crossbills come in several "types" - each have differing call notes and bill morphology. Each is co-adapted with certain types of pine cones/conifer species.
"Hi George, this is one of the most incredible crossbill checklists I've ever seen. You have Type 2, 3, 4, 5, and Cassia. And you have one bird we can't place between Type 7 and Type 12.
The loudest calls in ML611129085 are Type 3.
In ML611129086 you have:
Type 5 best viewed around 5.2-5.4 seconds
Cassia at 22.6 seconds
Type 4 starts up around 24 seconds
Type 2 around 37 seconds.
There is a bird calling around 38 seconds (spectra look like an upside-down check mark) that Matt and I can't place between Type 12 and Type 7. It has been there for several weeks.
Amazing stuff, congrats!!
Tim"
I will be revising my eBird Checklists to reflect their analysis. I'm not sure how to document or separate my photos with all of the different types, but I'll give it my best shot. I can separate the two sound recording and reference the time locations from their notes. Very Cool Experience!
Date: 11/20/23 12:25 pm From: Kristie Nelson <storm_petrel...> Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
As Alvaro Jaramillo (a prominant birder) mentioned earlier "The fact that now we know that Cassia Crossbills move around when things get tough in their home range, well that should not be a surprise. Other than Hispaniolan Crossbill, all of the rest of the Red Crossbill group in the New World tends to move around when food in the core range is a problem. It just happens to be that Cassia was particularly stable perhaps due to the lack of Red Squirrels in their core range."
There's a big push of mountain birds going on! At least some of it has been showing up in Missouri crossbills. More may come.
________________________________
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> on behalf of Media.com <edgew...>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2023 11:36 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...> <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
As one who made a 4,000 mile looping birding trip in Aug/Sep 2017 with Cassia Crossbill as the primary target bird (seen and heard September 1, 2017), I do not purport to be knowledgeable about crossbills beyond the basics.
The presence of a single bird in a flock in California suggests to me that the hapless critter may have taken off with one of the migratory groups that come through the very limited Cassia Crossbill area in Cassia County (southern) Idaho and now is wandering with that group. The presence of a single bird may or may not indicate a broader range than previously known, but my money is on it getting mixed in with the wrong crowd.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
________________________________
From: "Kristie Nelson" <storm_petrel...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2023 12:44:15 PM
Subject: Fw: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Hi mobsters -
As many of you have probably noticed, there have been quite a few red crossbills so far this fall in MO.
The irruption is not limited to Missouri, and appears to be involving different crossbill types. Out west, California recently recorded Cassia Crossbill. A species that is appearing to be more nomadic that initially thought.
The California Cassia crossbill spot recently turned up and incredible checklist of FIVE OR SIX different crossbill types within just one or two flocks. Check out the post below. That's totally nuts!
Missouri has recorded 4 different types - so this could be a great year to record unusual types beyond type 2. Try to get a recording if possible. You can take a video with your phone - and there are free apps online (like VLC) where you can save just the sound file from it. Or use Merlin app.
For those unfamiliar - red crossbills come in several "types" - each have differing call notes and bill morphology. Each is co-adapted with certain types of pine cones/conifer species.
Kristie Nelson
Yukon, MO
________________________________
From: <CALBIRDS...> <CALBIRDS...> on behalf of George Chrisman via groups.io <geodani55...>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 5:53 PM
To: <CALBIRDS...> <CALBIRDS...>
Subject: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
"Hi George, this is one of the most incredible crossbill checklists I've ever seen. You have Type 2, 3, 4, 5, and Cassia. And you have one bird we can't place between Type 7 and Type 12.
The loudest calls in ML611129085 are Type 3.
In ML611129086 you have:
Type 5 best viewed around 5.2-5.4 seconds
Cassia at 22.6 seconds
Type 4 starts up around 24 seconds
Type 2 around 37 seconds.
There is a bird calling around 38 seconds (spectra look like an upside-down check mark) that Matt and I can't place between Type 12 and Type 7. It has been there for several weeks.
Amazing stuff, congrats!!
Tim"
I will be revising my eBird Checklists to reflect their analysis. I'm not sure how to document or separate my photos with all of the different types, but I'll give it my best shot. I can separate the two sound recording and reference the time locations from their notes. Very Cool Experience!
George Chrisman
Burlingame, CA
_._,_._,_
________________________________
Groups.io Links:
Date: 11/20/23 11:46 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Speciation possibilities...
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Dreary day and I need a break. Got to musing (sometimes not a good thing).
Despite the disparity in size (let's just ignore that for the moment), how advantageous it would be for the offspring of a wandering limpkin and a wandering crossbill in the opening of mussels!
No more banging away risking concussion, nope, just stick that limpkin-long, crossbill-plier beak into a mussel, open wide, and voilá: mussel on the half shell!
It really is a dreary day--some amusement will help.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/20/23 11:36 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
As one who made a 4,000 mile looping birding trip in Aug/Sep 2017 with Cassia Crossbill as the primary target bird (seen and heard September 1, 2017), I do not purport to be knowledgeable about crossbills beyond the basics.
The presence of a single bird in a flock in California suggests to me that the hapless critter may have taken off with one of the migratory groups that come through the very limited Cassia Crossbill area in Cassia County (southern) Idaho and now is wandering with that group. The presence of a single bird may or may not indicate a broader range than previously known, but my money is on it getting mixed in with the wrong crowd.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
From: "Kristie Nelson" <storm_petrel...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2023 12:44:15 PM
Subject: Fw: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Hi mobsters -
As many of you have probably noticed, there have been quite a few red crossbills so far this fall in MO.
The irruption is not limited to Missouri, and appears to be involving different crossbill types. Out west, California recently recorded Cassia Crossbill. A species that is appearing to be more nomadic that initially thought.
The California Cassia crossbill spot recently turned up and incredible checklist of FIVE OR SIX different crossbill types within just one or two flocks. Check out the post below. That's totally nuts!
Missouri has recorded 4 different types - so this could be a great year to record unusual types beyond type 2. Try to get a recording if possible. You can take a video with your phone - and there are free apps online (like VLC) where you can save just the sound file from it. Or use Merlin app.
For those unfamiliar - red crossbills come in several "types" - each have differing call notes and bill morphology. Each is co-adapted with certain types of pine cones/conifer species.
"Hi George, this is one of the most incredible crossbill checklists I've ever seen. You have Type 2, 3, 4, 5, and Cassia. And you have one bird we can't place between Type 7 and Type 12.
The loudest calls in ML611129085 are Type 3.
In ML611129086 you have:
Type 5 best viewed around 5.2-5.4 seconds
Cassia at 22.6 seconds
Type 4 starts up around 24 seconds
Type 2 around 37 seconds.
There is a bird calling around 38 seconds (spectra look like an upside-down check mark) that Matt and I can't place between Type 12 and Type 7. It has been there for several weeks.
Amazing stuff, congrats!!
Tim"
I will be revising my eBird Checklists to reflect their analysis. I'm not sure how to document or separate my photos with all of the different types, but I'll give it my best shot. I can separate the two sound recording and reference the time locations from their notes. Very Cool Experience!
Date: 11/20/23 10:44 am From: Kristie Nelson <storm_petrel...> Subject: Fw: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Hi mobsters -
As many of you have probably noticed, there have been quite a few red crossbills so far this fall in MO.
The irruption is not limited to Missouri, and appears to be involving different crossbill types. Out west, California recently recorded Cassia Crossbill. A species that is appearing to be more nomadic that initially thought.
The California Cassia crossbill spot recently turned up and incredible checklist of FIVE OR SIX different crossbill types within just one or two flocks. Check out the post below. That's totally nuts!
Missouri has recorded 4 different types - so this could be a great year to record unusual types beyond type 2. Try to get a recording if possible. You can take a video with your phone - and there are free apps online (like VLC) where you can save just the sound file from it. Or use Merlin app.
For those unfamiliar - red crossbills come in several "types" - each have differing call notes and bill morphology. Each is co-adapted with certain types of pine cones/conifer species.
Kristie Nelson
Yukon, MO
________________________________
From: <CALBIRDS...> <CALBIRDS...> on behalf of George Chrisman via groups.io <geodani55...>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 5:53 PM
To: <CALBIRDS...> <CALBIRDS...>
Subject: [CALBIRDS] Cassia CrossBILL and Type 2,3,4,5,+ Red Crossbills at Skylawn Cemetery, San Mateo County, CA
"Hi George, this is one of the most incredible crossbill checklists I've ever seen. You have Type 2, 3, 4, 5, and Cassia. And you have one bird we can't place between Type 7 and Type 12.
The loudest calls in ML611129085 are Type 3.
In ML611129086 you have:
Type 5 best viewed around 5.2-5.4 seconds
Cassia at 22.6 seconds
Type 4 starts up around 24 seconds
Type 2 around 37 seconds.
There is a bird calling around 38 seconds (spectra look like an upside-down check mark) that Matt and I can't place between Type 12 and Type 7. It has been there for several weeks.
Amazing stuff, congrats!!
Tim"
I will be revising my eBird Checklists to reflect their analysis. I'm not sure how to document or separate my photos with all of the different types, but I'll give it my best shot. I can separate the two sound recording and reference the time locations from their notes. Very Cool Experience!
George Chrisman
Burlingame, CA
_._,_._,_
________________________________
Groups.io Links:
Date: 11/20/23 9:14 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Horned Greebes, Philips Lake, Coluimbia
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Kathleen Anderson just called to report two Horned Grebes and no other waterfowl present at Philips Lake, Columbia. Lots of American Robins.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/19/23 10:02 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: beef teaching and research farm
Not likely a factor.
Edge Wade
From: "Lanny Chambers" <lannychambers...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 11:14:49 AM
Subject: Re: beef teaching and research farm
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Deer season?
Lanny Chambers
Fenton, MO
> On Nov 19, 2023, at 11:05, Kathleen Anderson <0000049a9d0b4783-dmarc-request...> wrote:
>
> I hadn't been to the Beef Farm since Oct 1. I decided to go there today and gates were closed at both North and South ends. I was not welcome there today.
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Date: 11/19/23 9:15 am From: Lanny Chambers <lannychambers...> Subject: Re: beef teaching and research farm
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Deer season?
Lanny Chambers
Fenton, MO
> On Nov 19, 2023, at 11:05, Kathleen Anderson <0000049a9d0b4783-dmarc-request...> wrote:
>
> I hadn't been to the Beef Farm since Oct 1. I decided to go there today and gates were closed at both North and South ends. I was not welcome there today.
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/19/23 9:13 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: beef teaching and research farm
Sunday is often not a good day to go to the beef farm. Small staff means no one to guard stuff, so gates are closed.
Edge Wade
Columbia
<edgew...>
From: "Kathleen Anderson" <0000049a9d0b4783-dmarc-request...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 11:05:15 AM
Subject: beef teaching and research farm
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I hadn't been to the Beef Farm since Oct 1. I decided to go there today and gates were closed at both North and South ends. I was not welcome there today.
Kathleen Anderson, Columbia
Date: 11/19/23 9:05 am From: Kathleen Anderson <0000049a9d0b4783-dmarc-request...> Subject: beef teaching and research farm
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I hadn't been to the Beef Farm since Oct 1. I decided to go there today and gates were closed at both North and South ends. I was not welcome there today.
Kathleen Anderson, Columbia
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Date: 11/18/23 5:43 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: New Book on Bird Migration
Thanks, Dan. I'll put that book on my gotta read list!
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
From: "Daniel Getman" <000002b3a133f539-dmarc-request...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2023 5:17:50 PM
Subject: New Book on Bird Migration
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Some of you might be interested.
I just finished the book “Flight Paths: How a Passionate and Quirky Group of Pioneering Scientists Solved the Mystery of Bird Migration” (2023) by Rebecca Heisman.
It’s a pretty good book. It covers the methods used to study bird migration from the early days of banding and counting birds flying by the moon, through radar detection and then the various attached devices, which get smaller and smaller allowing for studying smaller birds, and then the measurement of isotope ratios, and then DNA to look at different regional populations of the same species.
In addition she interviews many of the people involved and tells their stories.
I found it an easy read and a good introduction to many of the techniques, with the descriptions of the various technologies geared towards the general population. The personal stories of the scientists involved are inspiring. It’s amazing have far things have come and what they can now determine.
I continued to be amazed by the incredible journeys that many of these birds undertake twice a year, as well as the dedication of the people who study them. The goal of many of these studies is to improve the specificity and impact of conservation efforts for species at both their breeding and wintering sites, as well as along their migration paths.
If interested, check it out. As a disclaimer, I have no financial interest in the book or connection to the author.
Dan Getman, Kirksville, northeast MO
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Date: 11/17/23 5:00 pm From: BEstes <000003321a7933de-dmarc-request...> Subject: Say's Phoebe at Schell-Osage CA
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Yesterday morning at Schell-Osage CA in St. Clair County, I got a Say's Phoebe (see eBird).
I went back this morning and did not see it.
I live nearby and often visit several times a week, but this is my first Say's Phoebe there--ever.
When I lived in New Mexico I saw them regularly.
Bob Estes
Cedar County
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Date: 11/17/23 3:38 pm From: Jean L <jaleonatti...> Subject: Boone county blackbird roost
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I have friends who live in north Boone county, just NW of the historic winter blackbird roost. Yesterday she told me it is "in full swing and spectacular". I have not been up there this fall, but thought I would pass the info along.
The hotspot can be found on eBird for those who are familiar with the location.
Date: 11/17/23 3:18 pm From: Daniel Getman <000002b3a133f539-dmarc-request...> Subject: New Book on Bird Migration
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Some of you might be interested.
I just finished the book “Flight Paths: How a Passionate and Quirky Group of Pioneering Scientists Solved the Mystery of Bird Migration” (2023) by Rebecca Heisman.
It’s a pretty good book. It covers the methods used to study bird migration from the early days of banding and counting birds flying by the moon, through radar detection and then the various attached devices, which get smaller and smaller allowing for studying smaller birds, and then the measurement of isotope ratios, and then DNA to look at different regional populations of the same species.
In addition she interviews many of the people involved and tells their stories.
I found it an easy read and a good introduction to many of the techniques, with the descriptions of the various technologies geared towards the general population. The personal stories of the scientists involved are inspiring. It’s amazing have far things have come and what they can now determine.
I continued to be amazed by the incredible journeys that many of these birds undertake twice a year, as well as the dedication of the people who study them. The goal of many of these studies is to improve the specificity and impact of conservation efforts for species at both their breeding and wintering sites, as well as along their migration paths.
If interested, check it out. As a disclaimer, I have no financial interest in the book or connection to the author.
Dan Getman, Kirksville, northeast MO
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Date: 11/17/23 2:31 pm From: Robert Brundage <rjbrundage...> Subject: Red Crossbills - Boone Co
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At around 4 pm today, I flushed a flock of about 10-15 Red Crossbills from treetops on private strip mine property north of Columbia and about 7 miles ESE from Rocky Fork Conservation Area. I heard them make call notes as the flew off. One other time about 2-3 weeks ago, I thought a flock of birds were crossbills but I was not as close and therefore not confident in my ID. This time, despite not looking through binoculars, I'm 99% confident. We heard them call a lot in August in Custer State Park in SD so I recall their call and confirmed listening to Sidley recordings.
Someone might want to check out Rocky Fork. We are deer hunting this property and do not live here, so really not conducive to hosting birders.
Robert Brundage
Jefferson City, MO
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Date: 11/16/23 11:06 am From: Daniel Getman <000002b3a133f539-dmarc-request...> Subject: Cedar Waxwings gobbling cedar berries
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Today, we had a flock of Cedar Waxwings sitting in the river birch right outside the window, visiting the water feature and “gobbling” down cedar berries. They would typically grab 5-6 in quick succession.
They were feeding in a cedar close to the house and I was able to quietly exit from a nearby door to capture some photos. In the photos, you can see how plentiful the cedar berries are this year.
Earlier in the day, a female Northern Flicker was in our river birch, probing at a notch where other birds tend to store peanuts. She then sat on a branch for quite a while. I later saw her at one of our flicker nest boxes, where they tend to roost during the winter.
Photos can be viewed at:
flickr.com/photos/dgetman/sets
Dan Getman, Kirksville, northeast MO
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Date: 11/16/23 10:34 am From: Sandra Elbert <selbert1...> Subject: Limpkin
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Did not find the limpkin between 10:30 and 11:00.
Met a man with camera with long lens. He had seen and photograph the limpkin earlier. He said the limpkin had recently hoped onto the trail! but he didn't know where it went from there.
The temp had started to drop and wind picked up.
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Date: 11/15/23 1:14 pm From: Kendrick, Sarah W <000004af59d1ebdc-dmarc-request...> Subject: NO SIGHTING: Robert Gallardo (Honduras) at Runge, Nov. 25
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Hello MOBIRDS,
Robert will speak about the importance of overwinter and stop-over habitat for migratory birds - a topic near and dear to my heart (and many of yours!). The presentation is free and open to all ages.
Thanks,
Sarah
Sarah Kendrick
Columbia, MO
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Date: 11/15/23 12:25 pm From: Eric Wood <000000151aac3bbb-dmarc-request...> Subject: Limpkin
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Lumpkin currently present at Twin Lakes in Columbia. Main lake, south/west corner near concrete culvert.
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Anyone going to Columbia Bottom CA on Saturday, please note that the exit from I-270 east to Riverview Blvd is closed. You will have to use an alternate route.
One way from I-270:
Exit at Bellefontaine Rd and almost immediately turn right on Larimore Rd. Follow it until it ends and turn left to reach Columbia Bottom.
Thursday we will meet at Teal Pond parking lot at Riverlands at 8 am
Saturday we will meet at the HQ at Columbia Bottom CA at 8 am.
David Becher
Saint Louis
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Thursday we will meet at Teal Pond parking lot at Riverlands at 8 am
Saturday we will meet at the HQ at Columbia Bottom CA at 8 am.
David Becher
Saint Louis
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Date: 11/13/23 1:37 pm From: Kevin Wehner <kevinwehner...> Subject: Limpkin Still Present in Columbia MO at Twin Lakes
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I observed the Limpkin around 1:30 this afternoon (thanks to another birder who pointed out the location!). The bird was hunkered down in the brush along the shoreline and very challenging to see. Here's a Google Maps screenshot of the approximate location:
Date: 11/12/23 6:39 pm From: Terrell Stamps <stampst...> Subject: Limpkin at Twin Lakes RA, COlumbia
Limpkin is still at Twin Lakes. We saw it around 11:30 AM today (Sunday, 11/12/23). Pictures and the exact location are in a post on the Columbia Audubon Society Facebook page. It hunkered down in the brush, so it is very difficult to see unless you know where to look between the dock and the shelter. The photo I posted on the Facebook page shows the exact location. You can look down on it through the brush (the last, closest picture I posted), doesn't seem too concerned about all the people, dogs, etc going by.
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Date: 11/12/23 10:55 am From: Daniel Getman <000002b3a133f539-dmarc-request...> Subject: Cedar Waxwings Continue
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We continue to have lots of Cedar Waxwings flying around our yard, eating cedar berries and visiting the water feature. It’s a joy to have them again after seeing few the last couple years.
I suspect it’s tied to the cedar berry crop (actually cones). This year we have a bumper crop, whereas the last few years we had few berries. Those liw numbers may have been due to poor wind pollination during those wet springs.
Anyways, it’s great to have them around again.
I even cleaned the leaves out of the water feature and placed some river birch branches for them to perch on. Since I had turned off the water flow while cleaning, there were some nice photos of the birds reflected in the calm water.
All-in-all, a beautiful, sunny morning with lots of bird activity, including a juvenile Red-headed Woodpecker, which is unusual for this time of year.
Photos can be viewed at:
flickr.com/photos/dgetman/sets
Dan Getman, Kirksville, northeast MO
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Date: 11/11/23 7:54 pm From: Dianne & Steve Kinder <000000023c9fba03-dmarc-request...> Subject: Smithville Lake Field Trip.
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We had our annual Grand River Audubon November Loon trip to Smithville today. We were joined by a few other Birders on a Chilly, but enjoyable event. Highlights were -
Many Common Loons
Surf Scoter
Black Scoter
Horned Grebes
26 American Pipits
Tree Swallows
Most exciting was watching a dramatic, ongoing interaction between an Adult Bald Eagle and an Osprey!
Steve Kinder
<dmkinder...>
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Date: 11/11/23 5:25 am From: Jean L <jaleonatti...> Subject: Limpkin, Boone County
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Limpkin still present at Twin Lakes RA in Columbia. Being harassed by GBHE but holding its ground. One dog also came onto beach and chased it.
Date: 11/10/23 6:05 pm From: C <rosenfeldcheryl...> Subject: Limpkin in Columbia, MO
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A Limpkin was spotted today in the small dog park at Twin Lakes Dog Park in Columbia, MO. This area has a lot of mussels and clams.
Date: 11/10/23 11:00 am From: Don Arney <22sora...> Subject: Long-tailed Duck, Lake Jacomo
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There was one Long-tailed Duck on the south end of Lake Jacomo Jackson County today. It was visible from the old swimming beach in a raft of six Ring-necked Ducks.
Don Arney
Kansas City
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Date: 11/9/23 6:17 am From: Jane Frazier <janefraz2828...> Subject: River Bluffs Audubon trip
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We will leave at 11:30 from Schulte's in Jefferson City, Saturday the 11th, to go to Eagle Bluffs CA. We will also briefly meet at the McBaine KATY Trail parking lot at 12:30. ALL are welcome. Ducks have been good there lately. Hope they hang around.
Date: 11/9/23 4:26 am From: Lawrence Herbert <certhia13...> Subject: sapsucker
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Like Daniel, in Kirksville, we also had our first of season
yellow-bellied sapsucker, here in Joplin, on 11-8-23.
Larry, Carleen, and Mark,
Joplin, Jasper County, MO. 11-9-23.
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Date: 11/8/23 10:24 am From: Daniel Getman <000002b3a133f539-dmarc-request...> Subject: Lots of Yard Activity
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This morning we had lots of Robins, Cedar Waxwings and Dark-eyed Juncos.
The Cedar Waxwings were feeding on the cedar berries, visiting the water feature and flying back and forth between the cedars, the river birch and the oak tree line. Their behavior is best described as skittish and frenzied.
We also had our 1st this fall:
Yellow-bellied Sapsucker
Purple Finches, several females and a male
The Yellow-bellied Sapsucker was seen in the river birch, but they seem to prefer our large White Pines, where we see their characteristic drill patterns.
I’ve also been hearing a Red-breasted Nuthatch, but haven’t seen it yet.
Photos can be viewed at:
flickr.com/photos/dgetman/sets
Dan Getman, Kirksville, northeast MO
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Date: 11/7/23 11:03 pm From: paul konarske <pkonarske1...> Subject: Within AOS's dominion, Common bird names will not reference people .
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Like others posting here, I was thinking about the massive amount of documentation that will need to be updated with both a new name and a back-reference to the original name (eg.'Long-tailed Duck' formerly known as Oldsquaw).
Then I thought of the name America and couldn't resist .....
It occurred to me that the American Ornithological Society (AOS), which has the formidable task of managing the common names of birds in its sphere of influence, now should, according to its own naming rules, change its own name!
Imagine! Why is that?
Well, the eponym 'American' honors Amerigo Vespucci! And the discovery of the 'New' world by Columbus! He was the guy who put the western continents on the map of the world. Now, European countries had whole new continents available for the taking. And this launched the greatest land grab and colonization in history, to the great demise of indigenous peoples and birds.
Goodbye Carolina Parakeet, Passenger Pigeon, Great Auk, etc.. And, sadly, many native tribes. And let's not forget the plague of slavery.
As such, is it possible all N.A. birds with 'American' in the common name will be changed? That's a lot of birds.
Perhaps the 'American Goldfinch' will now be the 'Greater Goldfinch', etc. Very interesting.
Where will this all end? Where will it stop? In my opinion, it should stop now, so I dont have to buy a new field guide, and....
It will be a shame to lose bird names applied in 300 years of scientific tradition, poetic license, social and political upheaval, and old conventions, and misconceptions.
For instance, I don't get the Zenaida Dove name. But, I find it poetic and a little romantic. It was named after Napoleon's Niece by her husband. He 1st described it. How cute!
And there's Kirtland's Warbler. Kirtland was a good guy. No slaves. Do you like the name 'Jack Pine Warbler' as much? At least they can't change the name of his snake.
And don't even get me started on Audubon. A man of his time, a prodigious explorer, talented naturalist and by the way, his name is everywhere, even at 'Riverlands'. His work and his art is venerated around the world. Why not use his name? He earned it! As did many of the other giants whose shoulders and work we stand upon. Let us honor them as they righly deserve!
I even think it's too bad that we don't have a bird named after Roger Tory Peterson. He is a major reason there are so many birders, bird lovers and bird books. Yes, Peterson's Warbler.
That would make me happy. I still have my signed copy of his first guide that contains my 1st checklist. There have been many checklists since then.
And what about this romantic misconception...
The American Robin? NO! Not a Robin. It's not an old world flycatcher! It's a thrush! What a mistake! And, it's been wrong since 1st referenced as Robin in 1703!
But, you see, the Robin is very popular. The state bird of 2 states, and no one is upset about it. So, even though it's wrong, I bet they don't change it! Never. Silly me.
Just Google American Robin and all kinds of nice things popup for the beloved 'Harbinger of Spring'.
I'm just saying, and complaining, and explaining, and questioning our collective sanity.
Bird names for birds will remove people's names...and the honor we bestowed on them.
'We have not come to honor Ceasar but to bury him, the evel that men do lives after them;
I liked the AOS better as a 'Union' rather than a 'Society' pushing 'social' agendas.
Maybe I'm getting old.
Can we vote on this?
Paul Konarske
St. Louis County, Wildwood, MO
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On Thursday, we will meet at Creve Coeur Lake on the east side by the edge of the bluff at 8 am.
On Saturday, we will meet at Horseshoe Lake State Park by the HQ at 8 am
David Becher
Saint Louis
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Date: 11/6/23 4:00 pm From: Lanny Chambers <lannychambers...> Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" / Bird Champions over aspersions (no sighting)
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My website task is not of the same magnitude as Dave's, but of North America's 17 hummingbird species, 5 are named after people. Names are scattered over dozens of web pages, some in places I've probably forgotten about. I'm considering simply adding a note about the renaming, with a cheat sheet for anyone who cares. It's also tempting to just take the site down.
Lanny Chambers
Fenton, MO
> On Nov 6, 2023, at 17:24, David Davis <davidcdavis29...> wrote:
>
> I’ll add another as a photographer who has amassed over a thousand images on my website, complete with the name of each bird. I do not look forward to changing all those names…… At all.
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Date: 11/6/23 3:24 pm From: David Davis <davidcdavis29...> Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" / Bird Champions over aspersions (no sighting)
Been enjoying the perspectives.
I’ll add another as a photographer who has amassed over a thousand images on my website, complete with the name of each bird. I do not look forward to changing all those names…… At all.
Date: 11/5/23 2:14 pm From: paul konarske <pkonarske1...> Subject: Spring observation of Pilieated woodpecker (PIWO) and Cooper's hawk
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Hello birders, here's a tale I would like to share:
When I moved into my current house I heard a PIWO in the woodlot across the street. Asap, I built a PIWO - sized suit feeder with ample landing space.
Well, 8 years passed and NO PIWOs!! It was sad.
Finally, this spring, two PIWOs showed up and started feeding in the woodlot in the back of the house. Wow, a male and a female! They were beautiful!
And, they both started using the suet feeder. Was I happy? No, I was ecstatic!
Almost immediately, I made a PIWO - sized birdhouse and endeavoured to hang it in a good tree 22 feet up. It was big, and, as many of you know, this is no simple task.
Then I waited, spending time observing every PIWO sighting with breathless anticipation. Imagine, PIWOs nesting in my backyard. Please, please, please!
Alas, every PIWO sighting indicated that they were nesting somewhere else and did not even roost in my box. :-(
Then, one day in May, this happened.....
A Cooper's hawk flew in chasing small birds up to my ground feeder.
It landed on the ground there looking shaken with no luck. Then it flew up into a nearby tree, sitting there very casually. Moments later a PIWO flew into a tree nearby, hitching up a tree some distance from but, in full view of the Cooper's hawk. It was about 50 feet away.from the hawk. Yikes!
The Cooper's watched the PIWO but seemed uninterested, as if it was resting.
Then ... BLAM!
The PIWO flew fast directly at the coopers hawk striking it hard, then it flew back to the same area it came from. It was fast and crazy. What bird attacks a Cooper's without becoming dinner? The Cooper's hawk was visibly stunned. So was I.
A moment passed as the Coopers hawk shook and fluffed itself. Apparently it's not used to being attacked by birds it thinks are dinner. Meanwhile, the PIWO did not leave the area and was just casually hitching up here and there looking for bugs. Then the Coopers hawk flew at the PIWO in what seemed to be an attack from below but as it came up near the PIWO, the PIWO flew and attacked the Cooper's again. The two birds engaged and twirled in the air for a few moments, both flapping enough to stay aloft and position themselves, then they split up but did not land,as both brds watched the other, flying close together for - I guess another opening to attack? At any time the PIWO could have flown off or evaded the Cooper's but it didn't.
I just couldn't take it any more. I ran out on the deck waving my arms and scared them both off in an effort to save the PIWO. Both birds flew away seemingly unharmed.
I've never seen anything like it. Sorry, no video.
Did not see PIWOs in my yard much after that, but they would meander through now and again.
I've seen a video of a Y. S. Flicker strike a Starling point blank, dropping it dead then and there. Imagine the damage a PIWO could do. But fight a Coopers hawk?
Has anyone ever ever seen a Cooper's get attacked?
Paul Konarske
St. Louis county. Wildwood, MO.
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Maybe on this listserve for awhile we can include (formally known as xxx) to ease us into it.Thanks,Steve <GriffawSgg.bluesfan...> Jefferson City MOSent via the Samsung Galaxy S21+ 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Dianne & Steve Kinder <000000023c9fba03-dmarc-request...> Date: 11/4/23 3:00 PM (GMT-06:00) To: <MOBIRDS-L...> Subject: Lapland Longspurs, Livingston County.
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I found a flock of about 25 LAPLAND Longspurs a couple of days ago in NW Livingston County, just west of Poosey CA. Wonder if their name will get changed??
Steve Kinder <dmkinder...>
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/5/23 11:25 am From: Ethan Duke <ethan.duke...> Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" / Bird Champions over aspersions (no sighting)
Those spearheading and officially supporting this are NOT grandstanding. Other ways of connecting more people to nature are many. All seem to bump up against walls. Indeed, even the smallest changes take effort when they run into opposition from those championing the status quo. IF a goal is to be more inclusive, perhaps it is best to share all means of achieving the aim rather than casting aspersions on those with different approaches. Such thinking has led to the normalization of the idea that any individual human is worthy of having their name permanently affixed to any other living species. Some may disagree, but many people have more respect for birds (and all wildlife) than that.
The birding community can look forward to being part of the process that will take time. Public input on naming suggestions will be more welcomed than ever! How cool is that?!
Further, I hope this topic leads to productive thoughts on how we can connect more people with nature.
Thank you to MBS for providing this forum to discuss a topic that addresses sociological aspects of birdwatching and bird conservation. I appreciate and have learned from the passionate and thoughtful candor of all commenters. It’s even brought in people who haven't supported MBS or engaged with us before.
I know the subject has (no sightings), but the Kinglets were dazzling today, and the sights and sounds of our fall/winter sparrows were delightful this morning.
Date: 11/5/23 9:22 am From: David Becher <davidbecher...> Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" (no sighting)
I agree completely. Fortunately, the scientific community uses the scientific (pseudo-Latin) names that will not be changed. There is currently an effort underway to standardize common names around the world, this initiative will complicate that immensely. There is no reason to expect that if we change the name of, for example, Leach’s Storm Petrel, which occurs around the world, that other ornithological societies will concur. This is grandstanding, pure and simple.
David Becher
Saint Louis
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> On Behalf Of Malcolm McCallum
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2023 11:14 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" (no sighting)
IF your goal is to promote diversity, there are better ways than changing names.
Like, actually promoting diversity.
These efforts are grandstanding, they provide the appearance of action without the impact of effort because they take little.
This comes from someone who really doesn't care if the names are changed or not.
I care that people are changing names in the name of something that results in almost no impact.
In fact, leaving the names may cause someone to look them up, discover that the person (I assume) did something remarkable in ornithology, but was a typical, flawed human being who should not be placed on a pedestal.
The only point in this effort that I consider nobel is the fact that they are just eliminating all references to people rather than picking and choosing.
I am very certain that this effort will do nothing to improve diversity issues.
It will, however, confuse scientific communication for decades.
The latter is what bothers me.
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 10:54 PM Ethan Duke <ethan.duke...><mailto:<ethan.duke...>> wrote:
Although the rewriting of history (i.e. “The Lost Cause” narrative) is problematic exactly as mentioned. The name changes are not about changing the past or rewriting history.
"There is an important distinction between learning history and honoring historical figures. If teaching people about someone’s ornithological contributions is your goal, then there are better, more effective ways to do that than through an eponymous species name. Not only is it more practical to use descriptive names, but birds deserve better than being saddled with an eponym. "
Whether or not current and future generations feel more welcomed into the birding community because of a few small changes in nomencalture, such efforts towards relevance are no great sacrifice.
I was looking at my grandfather’s boy scout journal from when Towhees were more commonly referred to as “chewinks.” He adjusted just fine.
Also, Is that true about the “Grey Jay”? Or is that just a rumor that came from Fox Sparrow News?
It has been "interesting" following this post...and I even heard a commentary on it on a national talk radio program.
The past is littered with heroes and villains (or with uncharitable actions by "all?") ... can we not acknowledge the failing of many (all?) or the mindset of various periods of history and let it be? Squaw Creek NWR was, and is, simply Squaw Creek NWR to me. Only after the effort to change the name did I even know what the word "squaw" meant. And now when I say I am heading to "Squaw" to bird....I never think of its actual derogatory meaning.....
The social aspect of birding is getting complicated....which destroys the beauty and simplicity of birding!!
Since I am a lumper, rather than a splitter, maybe we can just call all feathered animals..."Bird"? Everyone's life list would be tied at ONE and equity can reign!!
"Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made." Romans 1:20
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 4:39 PM Terry McNeely <terrymcneely...><mailto:<terrymcneely...>> wrote:
I totally agree. We cannot change the past, we can only learn from it. Trying to hide the past only allows for the past to be repeated!!
I agree. Good points. No need to be sorry. Just think things are going TOO FAR!
To me, Grey Crow, doesen't have same visual image as Clark's Nutcracker! But that's just my thoughts.
On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 11:08:46 AM CDT, paul konarske <pkonarske1...><mailto:<pkonarske1...>> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
What's in a common or a scientific name? Not just science, but history too!
Think of the people before us whose incredible contributions to science we rely upon and extend to get where we are today. Think of Curie, Darwin, Copernicus.
Must we cleanse their names from scientific work because of social concepts?
And even the history of social concepts (like change the name Robin).
Take Clark's Nutcracker as an example:
Probably soon to be called the Grey Crow.
It was observed and collected by William Clark during the Lewis and Clark expedition.
The skin was examined by Alexander Wilson who used it to create the engraving in his work of "American Ornithology". When I see one, the name recalls to me all the history of the great Louisiana Purchase and western migration.
You can't change history but, we should learn from it.
Science doesn't revise history! It expounds and expands on it and gives credit to the great contributions of those who came before us. ....or not!
Sorry for more than my 2 cents worth. I love birds, and science, and I know my history, even if it is Euro-centric and biased.
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
“Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich array of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature lovers alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share as Americans.”
-President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of 1973 into law.
"Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive" - Allan Nation
"...Every time they kick your teeth down your throat in this business, and believe me, they will, you get right back up and say that to yourself. Hey, it worked for me and the boys!” John Lennon
1880's: "There's lots of good fish in the sea" W.S. Gilbert
1990's: Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss,and pollution.
2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction MAY help restore populations.
2022: "Soylent Green is People!" Charleton Heston as Detective Thorn
2022: "People were always awful, but their was a world once, and it was beautiful.' Edward G. Robinson as Sol Roth.
Date: 11/5/23 9:14 am From: Malcolm McCallum <malcolm.mccallum.tamut...> Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" (no sighting)
IF your goal is to promote diversity, there are better ways than changing
names.
Like, actually promoting diversity.
These efforts are grandstanding, they provide the appearance of action
without the impact of effort because they take little.
This comes from someone who really doesn't care if the names are changed or
not.
I care that people are changing names in the name of something that results
in almost no impact.
In fact, leaving the names may cause someone to look them up, discover that
the person (I assume) did something remarkable in ornithology, but was a
typical, flawed human being who should not be placed on a pedestal.
The only point in this effort that I consider nobel is the fact that they
are just eliminating all references to people rather than picking and
choosing.
I am very certain that this effort will do nothing to improve diversity
issues.
It will, however, confuse scientific communication for decades.
The latter is what bothers me.
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 10:54 PM Ethan Duke <ethan.duke...> wrote:
*Confidentiality Notice:* This e-mail message, including any attachments,
is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain
confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized
review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
all copies of the original message.
“*Nothing is more priceless and worthy of preservation than the rich array
of animal life with which our country has been blessed. It is a
many-faceted treasure, of value to scholars, scientists, and nature lovers
alike, and it forms a vital part of the heritage we all share as Americans.*
”
*-President Richard Nixon upon signing the Endangered Species Act of 1973
into law.*
"*Peer pressure is designed to contain anyone with a sense of drive*" -*
Allan Nation*
"...Every time they kick your teeth down your throat in this business, and
believe me, they will, you get right back up and say that to yourself. Hey,
it worked for me and the boys!” John Lennon
*1880's: *"*There's lots of good fish in the sea*" W.S. Gilbert
*1990's:* Many fish stocks depleted due to overfishing, habitat loss,and
pollution.
2000: Marine reserves, ecosystem restoration, and pollution reduction *MAY*
help restore populations.
2022: "Soylent Green is People!" Charleton Heston as Detective Thorn
2022: "People were always awful, but their was a world once, and it was
beautiful.' Edward G. Robinson as Sol Roth.
The Seven Blunders of the World (Mohandas Gandhi)
Wealth w/o work
Pleasure w/o conscience
Knowledge w/o character
Commerce w/o morality
Science w/o humanity
Worship w/o sacrifice
Politics w/o principle
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/5/23 7:14 am From: Jane Frazier <janefraz2828...> Subject: My yard, a Ruby Crowned Kinglet
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Had a wonderful encounter with a Ruby Crowned KInglet yesterday in my front yard. He was low in a pear tree and making his way through the leaves and the miniscule fruit. At one point I think he was 8 feet away and I did not have my bins, but at that distance he was easy to see. Yes, it was in a pear, the dreaded pear (which is mature), but the tree came with the house!
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> On Behalf Of Lisa Saffell
Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2023 6:56 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" (no sighting)
I’m looking forward to including nee in all of my social media posts for birds who’s names have changed. Out of curiosity does anyone know how many of our beautiful creatures who deserve their own names have been named in honor of some of the amazing women who have shaped our history?
"Wherever there are birds, there is hope." - Mehmet Murat Ildan
On Nov 5, 2023, at 6:26 AM, Marge Lumpe <margelumpe...><mailto:<margelumpe...>> wrote:
Thank you, Ethan, for your excellent thoughts on the name-changing of the birds. We will all survive the necessary effort required to learn the new names.
A cross-reference on eBird will be helpful, but an occasional challenge is good for us.
Maya Angelou’s quote comes to mind: When we know better, we can do better. (I think that is it.)
Marge Lumpe
Benton County
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 10:54 PM Ethan Duke <ethan.duke...><mailto:<ethan.duke...>> wrote:
Although the rewriting of history (i.e. “The Lost Cause” narrative) is problematic exactly as mentioned. The name changes are not about changing the past or rewriting history.
"There is an important distinction between learning history and honoring historical figures. If teaching people about someone’s ornithological contributions is your goal, then there are better, more effective ways to do that than through an eponymous species name. Not only is it more practical to use descriptive names, but birds deserve better than being saddled with an eponym. "
Whether or not current and future generations feel more welcomed into the birding community because of a few small changes in nomencalture, such efforts towards relevance are no great sacrifice.
I was looking at my grandfather’s boy scout journal from when Towhees were more commonly referred to as “chewinks.” He adjusted just fine.
Also, Is that true about the “Grey Jay”? Or is that just a rumor that came from Fox Sparrow News?
It has been "interesting" following this post...and I even heard a commentary on it on a national talk radio program.
The past is littered with heroes and villains (or with uncharitable actions by "all?") ... can we not acknowledge the failing of many (all?) or the mindset of various periods of history and let it be? Squaw Creek NWR was, and is, simply Squaw Creek NWR to me. Only after the effort to change the name did I even know what the word "squaw" meant. And now when I say I am heading to "Squaw" to bird....I never think of its actual derogatory meaning.....
The social aspect of birding is getting complicated....which destroys the beauty and simplicity of birding!!
Since I am a lumper, rather than a splitter, maybe we can just call all feathered animals..."Bird"? Everyone's life list would be tied at ONE and equity can reign!!
"Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made." Romans 1:20
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 4:39 PM Terry McNeely <terrymcneely...><mailto:<terrymcneely...>> wrote:
I totally agree. We cannot change the past, we can only learn from it. Trying to hide the past only allows for the past to be repeated!!
I agree. Good points. No need to be sorry. Just think things are going TOO FAR!
To me, Grey Crow, doesen't have same visual image as Clark's Nutcracker! But that's just my thoughts.
On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 11:08:46 AM CDT, paul konarske <pkonarske1...><mailto:<pkonarske1...>> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
What's in a common or a scientific name? Not just science, but history too!
Think of the people before us whose incredible contributions to science we rely upon and extend to get where we are today. Think of Curie, Darwin, Copernicus.
Must we cleanse their names from scientific work because of social concepts?
And even the history of social concepts (like change the name Robin).
Take Clark's Nutcracker as an example:
Probably soon to be called the Grey Crow.
It was observed and collected by William Clark during the Lewis and Clark expedition.
The skin was examined by Alexander Wilson who used it to create the engraving in his work of "American Ornithology". When I see one, the name recalls to me all the history of the great Louisiana Purchase and western migration.
You can't change history but, we should learn from it.
Science doesn't revise history! It expounds and expands on it and gives credit to the great contributions of those who came before us. ....or not!
Sorry for more than my 2 cents worth. I love birds, and science, and I know my history, even if it is Euro-centric and biased.
Date: 11/5/23 5:08 am From: Douglas Hommert <doug...> Subject: Harris’s Sparrow continues at Little Creve Couer Ecological Area
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Date: 11/5/23 4:26 am From: Marge Lumpe <margelumpe...> Subject: Re: The "Lost Cause" (no sighting)
Thank you, Ethan, for your excellent thoughts on the name-changing of the
birds. We will all survive the necessary effort required to learn the new
names.
A cross-reference on eBird will be helpful, but an occasional challenge is
good for us.
Maya Angelou’s quote comes to mind: When we know better, we can do better.
(I think that is it.)
Marge Lumpe
Benton County
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 10:54 PM Ethan Duke <ethan.duke...> wrote:
Date: 11/4/23 10:12 pm From: Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...> Subject: Re: Names, Linnaen taxanomy, etc.
A rose by any name will still smell sweet. Ergo, a Chippie, wild canary, sprig, hell diver, butterball, timberdoodle, water witch whatever else we call them they will still be fascinating creatures. Heck. I used to be a birdwatcher and now am a birder. (Sort of like a gambler who is now a gamer). So what, who really cares? As it says in the Bible (at least I think it does) "render to e-bird that which is E-birds....) but to my old duck hunting friends in the Sny Bottoms I think I will stick to the old names. Cheers!Pat MaloneySt. Louis
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 05:59:42 PM CDT, Lanny Chambers <lannychambers...> wrote:
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Isn't the official common name Canada Jay? Anyway, Camp Robber might hurt the feelings of thieves, heaven forbid. I guess we can't use Whiskey Jack either, since Jack is a name.
Lanny Chambers
Fenton, MO
> On Nov 4, 2023, at 17:33, Mike Taylor <3catacres...> wrote:
>
> Well, if Clark’s Nutcracker becomes Grey Crow (Gray Crow?) that will be too similar to Gray Jay and will cause confusion. So, Gray Jay will have to be changed. I propose one of my favorite colloquial names for the species: Camp Robber.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/4/23 8:54 pm From: Ethan Duke <ethan.duke...> Subject: The "Lost Cause" (no sighting)
Although the rewriting of history (i.e. “The Lost Cause” narrative) is problematic exactly as mentioned. The name changes are not about changing the past or rewriting history.
"There is an important distinction between learning history and honoring historical figures. If teaching people about someone’s ornithological contributions is your goal, then there are better, more effective ways to do that than through an eponymous species name. Not only is it more practical to use descriptive names, but birds deserve better than being saddled with an eponym. "
Whether or not current and future generations feel more welcomed into the birding community because of a few small changes in nomencalture, such efforts towards relevance are no great sacrifice.
I was looking at my grandfather’s boy scout journal from when Towhees were more commonly referred to as “chewinks.” He adjusted just fine.
Also, Is that true about the “Grey Jay”? Or is that just a rumor that came from Fox Sparrow News?
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Isn't the official common name Canada Jay? Anyway, Camp Robber might hurt the feelings of thieves, heaven forbid. I guess we can't use Whiskey Jack either, since Jack is a name.
Lanny Chambers
Fenton, MO
> On Nov 4, 2023, at 17:33, Mike Taylor <3catacres...> wrote:
>
> Well, if Clark’s Nutcracker becomes Grey Crow (Gray Crow?) that will be too similar to Gray Jay and will cause confusion. So, Gray Jay will have to be changed. I propose one of my favorite colloquial names for the species: Camp Robber.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/4/23 3:33 pm From: Mike Taylor <3catacres...> Subject: Re: Names, Linnaen taxanomy, etc.
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Well, if Clark’s Nutcracker becomes Grey Crow (Gray Crow?) that will be too similar to Gray Jay and will cause confusion. So, Gray Jay will have to be changed. I propose one of my favorite colloquial names for the species: Camp Robber.
Mike Taylor
Bollinger County
I agree. Good points. No need to be sorry. Just think things are going TOO FAR!
To me, Grey Crow, doesen't have same visual image as Clark's Nutcracker! But that's just my thoughts.
Steve Kinder
Chillicothe, Livingston
<dmkinder...>
On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 11:08:46 AM CDT, paul konarske <pkonarske1...> wrote:
Take Clark's Nutcracker as an example:
Probably soon to be called the Grey Crow.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/4/23 2:51 pm From: Terry Miller <millert832...> Subject: Re: Names, Linnaen taxanomy, etc.
It has been "interesting" following this post...and I even heard a
commentary on it on a national talk radio program.
The past is littered with heroes and villains (or with uncharitable actions
by "all?") ... can we not acknowledge the failing of many (all?) or the
mindset of various periods of history and let it be? Squaw Creek NWR was,
and is, simply Squaw Creek NWR to me. Only after the effort to change the
name did I even know what the word "squaw" meant. And now when I say I am
heading to "Squaw" to bird....I *never* think of its actual derogatory
meaning.....
The social aspect of birding is getting complicated....which destroys the
beauty and simplicity of birding!!
Since I am a lumper, rather than a splitter, maybe we can just call all
feathered animals..."Bird"? Everyone's life list would be tied at ONE and
equity can reign!!
"Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely his
eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have
been made." Romans 1:20
On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 4:39 PM Terry McNeely <terrymcneely...>
wrote:
I agree. Good points. No need to be sorry. Just think things are going TOO FAR!
To me, Grey Crow, doesen't have same visual image as Clark's Nutcracker! But that's just my thoughts.
Steve Kinder
Chillicothe, Livingston
<dmkinder...>
On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 11:08:46 AM CDT, paul konarske <pkonarske1...> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
What's in a common or a scientific name? Not just science, but history too!
Think of the people before us whose incredible contributions to science we rely upon and extend to get where we are today. Think of Curie, Darwin, Copernicus.
Must we cleanse their names from scientific work because of social concepts?
And even the history of social concepts (like change the name Robin).
Take Clark's Nutcracker as an example:
Probably soon to be called the Grey Crow.
It was observed and collected by William Clark during the Lewis and Clark expedition.
The skin was examined by Alexander Wilson who used it to create the engraving in his work of "American Ornithology". When I see one, the name recalls to me all the history of the great Louisiana Purchase and western migration.
You can't change history but, we should learn from it.
Science doesn't revise history! It expounds and expands on it and gives credit to the great contributions of those who came before us. ....or not!
Sorry for more than my 2 cents worth. I love birds, and science, and I know my history, even if it is Euro-centric and biased.
Date: 11/4/23 1:29 pm From: Mike Grant <mikecurlew...> Subject: Ruby-throated Hummingbird
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Had a visit this afternoon on my St. Louis County feeder. Although late, I see nothing that makes me think any hummer other than a Ruby-throated.
Date: 11/4/23 1:19 pm From: Dianne & Steve Kinder <000000023c9fba03-dmarc-request...> Subject: Re: Names, Linnaen taxanomy, etc.
I agree. Good points. No need to be sorry. Just think things are going TOO FAR! To me, Grey Crow, doesen't have same visual image as Clark's Nutcracker! But that's just my thoughts.
Steve KinderChillicothe, Livingston <dmkinder...>
On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 11:08:46 AM CDT, paul konarske <pkonarske1...> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.What's in a common or a scientific name? Not just science, but history too!Think of the people before us whose incredible contributions to science we rely upon and extend to get where we are today. Think of Curie, Darwin, Copernicus.Must we cleanse their names from scientific work because of social concepts?And even the history of social concepts (like change the name Robin).
Take Clark's Nutcracker as an example:Probably soon to be called the Grey Crow.It was observed and collected by William Clark during the Lewis and Clark expedition.The skin was examined by Alexander Wilson who used it to create the engraving in his work of "American Ornithology". When I see one, the name recalls to me all the history of the great Louisiana Purchase and western migration. You can't change history but, we should learn from it.Science doesn't revise history! It expounds and expands on it and gives credit to the great contributions of those who came before us. ....or not!
Sorry for more than my 2 cents worth. I love birds, and science, and I know my history, even if it is Euro-centric and biased.
Paul KonarskeSt.Louis, Mo.248-470-6078
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
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ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/4/23 1:00 pm From: Dianne & Steve Kinder <000000023c9fba03-dmarc-request...> Subject: Lapland Longspurs, Livingston County.
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
I found a flock of about 25 LAPLAND Longspurs a couple of days ago in NW Livingston County, just west of Poosey CA. Wonder if their name will get changed??
Steve Kinder
<dmkinder...>
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/4/23 10:38 am From: Peter Kondrashov <pkondrash...> Subject: Long Branch closed this weekend
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Keep in mind that the rest of the park is closed this weekend for a managed hunt, but S end of the dam and visitor center area are open.
Peter
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/4/23 10:35 am From: Peter Kondrashov <pkondrash...> Subject: 4 Long-tailed ducks at Long Branch
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I am looking at 4(!) Long-tailed ducks from the S end of the dam at Long Branch SP (Macon Co). Seems like a new fave spot for them. My personal highest count for the state.
Peter Kondrashov
Kirksville, MO
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
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In view now at Little Creve Coeur Ecological Area just down trail from parking lot
Sent from my iPhone
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
The section that mentions the distinction between learning history and honoring historical figures may be quite helpful. There are many additional concepts stating the official who, what, and why of Bird Names for Birds in the FAQs.
“A land ethic, then, reflects the existence of an ecological conscience, and this in turn reflects a conviction of individual responsibility for the health of the land. Health is the capacity of the land for self-renewal. Conservation is our effort to understand and preserve this capacity." ~ Aldo Leopold, “Land Ethic” 1949
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> On Behalf Of Greg Swick
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 7:18 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Excellent analysis of name change issue (No sighting)
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Hi MoBirders,
I think this article does a pretty good job of summarizing why the issue of bird name changes is absolutely the right path to take. Here’s a quote and a link.
AOS President Colleen Handel, Ph.D., said: “There is power in a name, and some English bird names have associations with the past that continue to be exclusionary and harmful today. We need a much more inclusive and engaging scientific process that focuses attention on the unique features and beauty of the birds themselves. Everyone who loves and cares about birds should be able to enjoy and study them freely—and birds need our help now more than ever.”
The American Ornithological Society Will Change the English Names of Bird Species Named After People
Date: 11/3/23 11:36 am From: David Becher <davidbecher...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Let’s change the name of St. Louis. He was a bigot, a crusader (which is certainly not diverse), and incompetent as well.
David Becher
Saint Louis
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> On Behalf Of ROBERT ANDERSON
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2023 8:53 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
"Foolish names" that have been around for many years? When you're finished with your word games of changing bird names, you can continue with states names, city names, planet names, star names, etc. etc. etc.
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:45:35 PM CDT, Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...><mailto:<maloneypatrick...>> wrote:
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.
Cheers!
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...><mailto:<frederickjohnandlinda...>> wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.
However, I really don't know if "Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"
as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.
Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda Frederick
Rolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev <rlkorotev...><mailto:<rlkorotev...>> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 11:02 am From: Kirk Suedmeyer <KirkSuedmeyer...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
I look forward to expanding my life list now! So many new birds!!!!!😊 When the names change, so will the definition of their vocalizations and their colors!!!!!
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The Kansas City Zoo cares about our environment.
Please consider before printing this email or attachments.
From: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> On Behalf Of Jim Malone
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 11:32 AM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
We may need to carry little cheat sheets for awhile as we learn the new names...
Jim Malone
Ballwin, MO
St. Louis county
On 11/3/2023 9:55 AM, Media.com wrote:
Another approach to addressing the name changes could be done by cross-referencing on a website (independent or as a subset of eBird) that lists old--the current pre-change names--and the new--in a reversible format as is done with translating from language to language.
An eBird enterer/searcher who cannot find the name associated with past entries, or who encounters an unfamiliar new name could go to that list, search it from either old or new and find the species. This could also serve as a tool/source for learning the new names.
________________________________
From: "Steve Griffaw" <sgg.bluesfan...><mailto:<sgg.bluesfan...> To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...><mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:31:42 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
One more thought on this. Not sure if it has been said. It has been mentioned that ebird will switch when it is official. It would be nice if somehow you could still search for the old name if you can't remember the new name and it can let you know it now goes by xxx. Changing one or two at once is not bad, but this volume will have many not found or mis posted.
Same for field guides including electronic ones. If I type in Nashville Warbler if it could pull up the new name with a note formally known as blah blah blah. After all, how long have we now seen X (formally known as Twitter)... Don't know if Nashville is on the hit list but just using as an example.
I mention this as I was looking into going to a far away place and looked up what was seen there at the same time a year ago. A gull came up that I had never heard of and unfortunately the name included an adjective that made searches extreemly challenging to see if it is a new gull for me or a rename. Took a lot of time to find it was a rename.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21+ 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Media.com" <edgew...><mailto:<edgew...> Date: 11/3/23 9:15 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: <MOBIRDS-L...><mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Robert,
Your posts on Mobirds are appreciated. Please conform to the protocol by signing your post and including your city or county of residence (you can look at other posts to see this is the practice).
________________________________
From: "ROBERT ANDERSON" <anderson3200...><mailto:<anderson3200...> To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...><mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...> Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 8:53:28 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
"Foolish names" that have been around for many years? When you're finished with your word games of changing bird names, you can continue with states names, city names, planet names, star names, etc. etc. etc.
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:45:35 PM CDT, Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...><mailto:<maloneypatrick...> wrote:
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.
Cheers!
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...><mailto:<frederickjohnandlinda...> wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.
However, I really don't know if "Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"
as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.
Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda Frederick
Rolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev <rlkorotev...><mailto:<rlkorotev...>> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 10:59 am From: catherine paris <cparis12010...> Subject: 2 cents: seems that symbol has faded away...
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Paul gave us a wonderful perspective. History is invaluable. Thank you.
Like it or not, I suspect that the name changing has a great deal to do with the donations that pour in to altruistic organizations that rely solely on interested and caring individuals to protect birds.
Unfortunately, it seems that defenders of the environment and its creatures are forced to spend huge amounts of money seeking donations and huge amounts in legal fees wrangling over who has "the right" or onus to protect postage stamps of land. And, how.
Date: 11/3/23 10:32 am From: Ronda Sherrill <0000031706875a2f-dmarc-request...> Subject: Turkey Creek WWTP Joplin
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
My daughter from St. Louis area and I birded Turkey Creek wastewater treatment plant today and saw some very late migrants: greater yellowlegs (5), least sandpipers (20), and at least two pectoral sandpipers, along with the usual snipe, shovelers, killdeer, ruddy ducks and savannah sparrows. No Bonaparte’s gulls this time. Ronda (Sherrill) Brown, Joplin
Sent from my iPhone
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 9:50 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Indeed, and, by the way, Jim, I've several times used your bit about not finding a limpkin in the cereal and returning the box--always crediting you. Thanks for the fun.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
From: "Jim Malone" <stlbirderjm...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 11:32:01 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
We may need to carry little cheat sheets for awhile as we learn the new names...
Jim Malone Ballwin, MO
St. Louis county
On 11/3/2023 9:55 AM, Media.com wrote:
Another approach to addressing the name changes could be done by cross-referencing on a website (independent or as a subset of eBird) that lists old--the current pre-change names--and the new--in a reversible format as is done with translating from language to language.
An eBird enterer/searcher who cannot find the name associated with past entries, or who encounters an unfamiliar new name could go to that list, search it from either old or new and find the species. This could also serve as a tool/source for learning the new names.
From: "Steve Griffaw" [ mailto:<sgg.bluesfan...> | <sgg.bluesfan...> ]
To: "MOBIRDS-L" [ mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...> | <MOBIRDS-L...> ]
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:31:42 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
One more thought on this. Not sure if it has been said. It has been mentioned that ebird will switch when it is official. It would be nice if somehow you could still search for the old name if you can't remember the new name and it can let you know it now goes by xxx. Changing one or two at once is not bad, but this volume will have many not found or mis posted.
Same for field guides including electronic ones. If I type in Nashville Warbler if it could pull up the new name with a note formally known as blah blah blah. After all, how long have we now seen X (formally known as Twitter)... Don't know if Nashville is on the hit list but just using as an example.
I mention this as I was looking into going to a far away place and looked up what was seen there at the same time a year ago. A gull came up that I had never heard of and unfortunately the name included an adjective that made searches extreemly challenging to see if it is a new gull for me or a rename. Took a lot of time to find it was a rename.
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21+ 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Media.com" [ mailto:<edgew...> | <edgew...> ]
Date: 11/3/23 9:15 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: [ mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...> | <MOBIRDS-L...> ]
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Robert,
Your posts on Mobirds are appreciated. Please conform to the protocol by signing your post and including your city or county of residence (you can look at other posts to see this is the practice).
From: "ROBERT ANDERSON" [ mailto:<anderson3200...> | <anderson3200...> ]
To: "MOBIRDS-L" [ mailto:<MOBIRDS-L...> | <MOBIRDS-L...> ]
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 8:53:28 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
"Foolish names" that have been around for many years? When you're finished with your word games of changing bird names, you can continue with states names, city names, planet names, star names, etc. etc. etc.
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:45:35 PM CDT, Patrick Maloney [ mailto:<maloneypatrick...> | <maloneypatrick...> ] wrote:
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.
Cheers!
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick [ mailto:<frederickjohnandlinda...> | <frederickjohnandlinda...> ] wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.
However, I really don't know if " Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"
as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.
Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda Frederick
Rolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev < [ mailto:<rlkorotev...> | <rlkorotev...> ] > wrote:
BQ_BEGIN
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 9:08 am From: paul konarske <pkonarske1...> Subject: Names, Linnaen taxanomy, etc.
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
What's in a common or a scientific name? Not just science, but history too!
Think of the people before us whose incredible contributions to science we rely upon and extend to get where we are today. Think of Curie, Darwin, Copernicus.
Must we cleanse their names from scientific work because of social concepts?
And even the history of social concepts (like change the name Robin).
Take Clark's Nutcracker as an example:
Probably soon to be called the Grey Crow.
It was observed and collected by William Clark during the Lewis and Clark expedition.
The skin was examined by Alexander Wilson who used it to create the engraving in his work of "American Ornithology". When I see one, the name recalls to me all the history of the great Louisiana Purchase and western migration.
You can't change history but, we should learn from it.
Science doesn't revise history! It expounds and expands on it and gives credit to the great contributions of those who came before us. ....or not!
Sorry for more than my 2 cents worth. I love birds, and science, and I know my history, even if it is Euro-centric and biased.
Paul Konarske
St.Louis, Mo.
248-470-6078
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 7:55 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Another approach to addressing the name changes could be done by cross-referencing on a website (independent or as a subset of eBird) that lists old--the current pre-change names--and the new--in a reversible format as is done with translating from language to language.
An eBird enterer/searcher who cannot find the name associated with past entries, or who encounters an unfamiliar new name could go to that list, search it from either old or new and find the species. This could also serve as a tool/source for learning the new names.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
From: "Steve Griffaw" <sgg.bluesfan...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 9:31:42 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
One more thought on this. Not sure if it has been said. It has been mentioned that ebird will switch when it is official. It would be nice if somehow you could still search for the old name if you can't remember the new name and it can let you know it now goes by xxx. Changing one or two at once is not bad, but this volume will have many not found or mis posted.
Same for field guides including electronic ones. If I type in Nashville Warbler if it could pull up the new name with a note formally known as blah blah blah. After all, how long have we now seen X (formally known as Twitter)... Don't know if Nashville is on the hit list but just using as an example.
I mention this as I was looking into going to a far away place and looked up what was seen there at the same time a year ago. A gull came up that I had never heard of and unfortunately the name included an adjective that made searches extreemly challenging to see if it is a new gull for me or a rename. Took a lot of time to find it was a rename.
I hope these things are considered.
Thanks,
Steve Griffaw
<Sgg.bluesfan...>
Jefferson City MO
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S21+ 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: "Media.com" <edgew...>
Date: 11/3/23 9:15 AM (GMT-06:00)
To: <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Robert,
Your posts on Mobirds are appreciated. Please conform to the protocol by signing your post and including your city or county of residence (you can look at other posts to see this is the practice).
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
From: "ROBERT ANDERSON" <anderson3200...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 8:53:28 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
"Foolish names" that have been around for many years? When you're finished with your word games of changing bird names, you can continue with states names, city names, planet names, star names, etc. etc. etc.
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:45:35 PM CDT, Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...> wrote:
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.
Cheers!
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...> wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.
However, I really don't know if " Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"
as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.
Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda Frederick
Rolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev < [ mailto:<rlkorotev...> | <rlkorotev...> ] > wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 7:32 am From: sgg.bluesfan <sgg.bluesfan...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
One more thought on this. Not sure if it has been said. It has been mentioned that ebird will switch when it is official. It would be nice if somehow you could still search for the old name if you can't remember the new name and it can let you know it now goes by xxx. Changing one or two at once is not bad, but this volume will have many not found or mis posted.Same for field guides including electronic ones. If I type in Nashville Warbler if it could pull up the new name with a note formally known as blah blah blah. After all, how long have we now seen X (formally known as Twitter)... Don't know if Nashville is on the hit list but just using as an example. I mention this as I was looking into going to a far away place and looked up what was seen there at the same time a year ago. A gull came up that I had never heard of and unfortunately the name included an adjective that made searches extreemly challenging to see if it is a new gull for me or a rename. Took a lot of time to find it was a rename.I hope these things are considered.Thanks,Steve <GriffawSgg.bluesfan...> Jefferson City MOSent via the Samsung Galaxy S21+ 5G, an AT&T 5G smartphone -------- Original message --------From: "Media.com" <edgew...> Date: 11/3/23 9:15 AM (GMT-06:00) To: <MOBIRDS-L...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works Robert,Your posts on Mobirds are appreciated. Please conform to the protocol by signing your post and including your city or county of residence (you can look at other posts to see this is the practice).Edge WadeColumbia, <MOedgew...>: "ROBERT ANDERSON" <anderson3200...>To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 8:53:28 AMSubject: Re: New Species Names in the Works "Foolish names" that have been around for many years? When you're finished with your word games of changing bird names, you can continue with states names, city names, planet names, star names, etc. etc. etc.
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:45:35 PM CDT, Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...> wrote:
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.Cheers!
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...> wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.However, I really don't know if "Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.Linda FrederickRolla, MOOn Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev <rlkorotev...> wrote:WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers: Virginia Rail Mississippi Kite Philadelphia Vireo Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811 Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other, Cape May Warbler Kentucky Warbler Louisiana Warbler Connecticut Warbler Carolina Chickadee Carolina Wren Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species: Magnolia Warbler Palm Warbler Already renamed: Myrtle Warbler Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev University City
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Date: 11/3/23 7:29 am From: Diane Bricmont <colaptes.auratus...> Subject: Harris's Sparrow - STL CO
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
The Harris's Sparrow found yesterday by Chris W continues at Little Creve Coeur in weedy brush just west of the south parking lot!
Diane Bricmont
STL CO
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Date: 11/3/23 7:14 am From: Media.com <edgew...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Robert,
Your posts on Mobirds are appreciated. Please conform to the protocol by signing your post and including your city or county of residence (you can look at other posts to see this is the practice).
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
<edgew...>
From: "ROBERT ANDERSON" <anderson3200...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Friday, November 3, 2023 8:53:28 AM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
"Foolish names" that have been around for many years? When you're finished with your word games of changing bird names, you can continue with states names, city names, planet names, star names, etc. etc. etc.
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:45:35 PM CDT, Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...> wrote:
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.
Cheers!
On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...> wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.
However, I really don't know if " Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"
as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.
Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda Frederick
Rolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev < [ mailto:<rlkorotev...> | <rlkorotev...> ] > wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 7:03 am From: ROBERT ANDERSON <anderson3200...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
"Foolish names" that have been around for many years? When you're finished with your word games of changing bird names, you can continue with states names, city names, planet names, star names, etc. etc. etc. On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:45:35 PM CDT, Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...> wrote:
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.Cheers! On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...> wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.However, I really don't know if "Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda FrederickRolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev <rlkorotev...> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
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Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
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MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
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Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/3/23 5:18 am From: Greg Swick <grswick...> Subject: Excellent analysis of name change issue (No sighting)
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.Hi MoBirders, I think this article does a pretty good job of summarizing why the issue of bird name changes is absolutely the right path to take. Here’s a quote and a link. AOS President Colleen Handel, Ph.D., said: “There is power in a name, and some English bird names have associations with the past that continue to be exclusionary and harmful today. We need a much more inclusive and engaging scientific process that focuses attention on the unique features and beauty of the birds themselves. Everyone who loves and cares about birds should be able to enjoy and study them freely—and birds need our help now more than ever.”
Pull-Quote2-Says-Phoebe-Sayornis-saya.png
The American Ornithological Society Will Change the English Names of Bird Species Named After Peopleamericanornithology.org
Date: 11/2/23 12:45 pm From: Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
Obviously, to the scientific community, proper naming is extremely important. Many MoBirders consider themselves (and rightly so) as part of the scientific community as their observations and reports are very useful scientifically. On the other hand, many times I don't know a Swainson's Hawk from a pterodactyl and if all I know is that I've seen something new I'm happy. I wish I knew more and could add my observations to the scientific knowledge, but I don't think I could.Cheers! On Thursday, November 2, 2023 at 02:07:00 PM CDT, John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...> wrote:
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.However, I really don't know if "Our main goal was to increase the birdwatching public"as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda FrederickRolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev <rlkorotev...> wrote:
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/2/23 12:06 pm From: John and Linda Frederick <frederickjohnandlinda...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
This is all very interesting. I personally don't like birds or plants or
whatever named for people and don't object to name changes.
However, I really don't know if "Our main goal was to increase the
birdwatching public"
as quoted from one article, is going to be realized. It seems the best way
to achieve that is for those of us interested in the natural world to try
to do things to mentor others.
As for descriptive names, the bias towards naming some species with a high
degree of sexual dimorphism based on the appearance of males of the species
could be considered extremely sexist and offensive. Black-throated Green
Warbler? Rose-breasted Grosbeak? tell that to the female.
Yet somehow those names didn't stop me from being interested in birds.
Linda Frederick
Rolla, MO
On Thu, Nov 2, 2023, 8:45 AM Randy Korotev <rlkorotev...> wrote:
Date: 11/2/23 8:30 am From: Deepa Mohan <mohandeepa...> Subject: Re: Name changes
Totally enjoying this thread! We in India are struggling to keep up too.
I watched the Purple Moorhen turn into the Purple Swamphen, and then,
referring to a tiny patch on this bird's head, hardly visible, it became a
Grey-headed Swamphen, a name I am not comfortable with yet!
Now our Intermediate Egret has become a Medium Egret, which makes me wonder
if it holds seances. There are times when I wonder if all of it is just to
increase birders' life lists and provide more "lifers"!
Oh well, taxonomy marches on. It's well named, because it taxes us a lot!
Cheers, Deepa.
On Thu, 2 Nov, 2023, 20:24 Susan Eaton, <susiede...> wrote:
Date: 11/2/23 6:45 am From: Randy Korotev <rlkorotev...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
As we all know, there a number of other American bird species with foolish names - well, I suppose I should say "misleading in the literal sense" - that probably confuse beginners.
Species named for the place where they were first seen by European-trained observers:
Virginia Rail
Mississippi Kite
Philadelphia Vireo
Nashville Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811
Tennessee Warbler - Alexander Wilson saw it in Nashville in May, 1811, I don’t know why I think I know this but one of the birds was seen the day after the other,
Cape May Warbler
Kentucky Warbler
Louisiana Warbler
Connecticut Warbler
Carolina Chickadee
Carolina Wren
Sandwich Tern – Dr. Wikipedia: “The Sandwich Tern (Thalasseus sandvicensis) was named by the ornithologist John Latham who first described the bird in 1787 based on the English town of Sandwich where he lived.”
Tree or shrub in which it was first seen, some of which have ranges much farther south than the breeding range of the bird species:
Magnolia Warbler
Palm Warbler
Already renamed:
Myrtle Warbler
Sycamore Warbler
There are probably others. Olive Warbler?
Randy Korotev
University City
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/2/23 6:37 am From: Nancy Rock <nancyroc...> Subject: Name changes
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Edge Wade "Remember(s) when Common Moorhen was changed to Common Gallinule..."
I remember when Common Gallinule was changed to Common Moorhen!
I also remember, as a very young birder, just (jokingly) giving up and pointing out a Great American White Egret to my friends.
Happy Birding everyone,
Nancy Rock
Shell Knob, MO
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Date: 11/1/23 9:23 pm From: Patrick Maloney <maloneypatrick...> Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
We can always do like Prince and Twitter and include "Formerly Known as..."
On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 06:12:21 PM CDT, Terry McNeely <terrymcneely...> wrote:
There is always Tweety,Woody Woodpecker and of course Big Bird
Terry McNeely 25843 Grate Ave Jameson MO Daviess County 660-663-9322 Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: Missouri Wild Bird Forum <MOBIRDS-L...> on behalf of Media.com <edgew...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 6:05:00 PM
To: <MOBIRDS-L...> <MOBIRDS-L...>
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works Ruby was the one the country singer asked not to take her love to town. Clearly not an appropriate name for a bird young people might see.
Edge Wade
Columbia, MO
From: "Lanny Chambers" <lannychambers...>
To: "MOBIRDS-L" <MOBIRDS-L...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2023 5:52:54 PM
Subject: Re: New Species Names in the Works
WARNING: This message has originated from an External Source. This may be a phishing expedition that can result in unauthorized access to our IT System. Please use proper judgment and caution when opening attachments, clicking links, or responding to this email.
Yes, of course. But tell your friend there's no hurry, given how long it's likely to take the Bird Banding Lab to update their lookup tables. I won't need to retrap any hummers, as they're unlikely to live that long anyway. ;-)
(Seriously, a bird band displays a unique number, among other things, but no species code. That's for the bander to submit to the BBL as part of the capture record.)
BTW, I don't know who Ruby was, but I guess Archilochus colubris will need a new name...
Lanny Chambers
Fenton, MO
> On Nov 1, 2023, at 16:39, Mike Taylor <3catacres...> wrote:
>
> Will we have to recapture all the banded birds and reband them with new four-letter acronyms? Asking for a friend.
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The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
Archives / Subscription options / MBS Website / Email the list owners
ABA Birding Code of Ethics
MBS Spring Meeting: May 3 – 5, 2024 at Stoney Creek Inn, St. Joseph, MO.
------------------------------------------------------------
The Missouri Birding Society's Wild Bird Discussion Forum
