Birders
Received From Subject
1/17/21 12:33 pm Mag Tait <magtait1...> Re: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched? -- Roundabout thoughts...beware the lengthy ruminations!
1/17/21 10:25 am Linda Berauer <lberauer...> Re: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched? -- Roundabout thoughts...beware the lengthy ruminations!
1/17/21 10:05 am John Farmer <ajf-jlf...> RE: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched? -- Roundabout thoughts...beware the lengthy ruminations!
1/17/21 7:32 am Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...> [birders] Do birds “like” being watched?
1/16/21 3:50 pm Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> [birders] Bald Eagle
1/15/21 3:10 pm Tait, Mag <mtait...> [birders] Help protect wild birds from deadly salmonellosis | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife
1/15/21 4:30 am 'John Gannon' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Red-wing blackbirds
1/14/21 11:10 am Beth McCullough Adas <beth...> [birders] Fwd: Conference Vlog #3 + 01/13 Event with Sarah Jaquette Ray!
1/14/21 8:00 am Barb Myckowiak <bmyckowiak911...> [birders] Fw: Update on Jerin's accident and Virtual Birding Tours
1/13/21 4:24 pm Penny <dorfdoom...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/13/21 4:13 pm Scott Manly <manlyrs...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/13/21 4:08 pm Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/13/21 4:04 pm Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/13/21 3:36 pm April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] Birds in Greek Mythology
1/13/21 2:03 pm Eve Wilson <evew...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/13/21 1:54 pm Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/13/21 10:10 am 'George Hammond' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/13/21 7:49 am Diana Kern <dlkaamitwin...> [birders] Winter Wren in Hamburg
1/13/21 7:17 am Dan Fox <dfoxmi...> Re: [birders] One more quick bird poop story
1/13/21 7:14 am Dan Fox <dfoxmi...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/13/21 7:07 am Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/13/21 6:26 am 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Re: Melissa-Carolina Wren question
1/13/21 4:56 am 'John Gannon' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 7:26 pm Penny <dorfdoom...> Re: [birders] One more quick bird poop story
1/12/21 6:57 pm Jean Gramlich <jeangramlich...> Re: [birders] One more quick bird poop story
1/12/21 6:49 pm Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> [birders] One more quick bird poop story
1/12/21 6:35 pm Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 5:31 pm Penny <dorfdoom...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 5:15 pm Michael inA2 <michaelina2...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 5:14 pm Eve Wilson <evew...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 5:03 pm Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 4:46 pm 'Denise' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 4:29 pm 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 4:21 pm Stevie <Stevie19...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 3:19 pm Eve Wilson <evew...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 2:10 pm Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 1:59 pm Dan Fox <dfoxmi...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 1:57 pm Eve Wilson <evew...> Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 1:52 pm Eve Wilson <evew...> [birders] Carolina Wren
1/12/21 12:26 pm 'Mike Sefton' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Non-bird: NEW DATE! January Lunch & Learn: Tolima Raptor Count
1/12/21 11:56 am Penny <dorfdoom...> [birders] Lake St. Clair
1/12/21 10:52 am Eric Arnold <eba...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 10:51 am Josh Haas <josh...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 10:39 am Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 10:39 am Diana Kern <dlkaamitwin...> [birders] Huge Flock of Robins Singing
1/12/21 10:30 am James Buschmann <jbuschmann...> [birders] Robins
1/12/21 9:59 am Ann Alvarez <annra.new...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 9:23 am Penny <dorfdoom...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 7:33 am 'bill butler' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 7:30 am Anna <awmtngal...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 5:11 am Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 4:53 am April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] Hawk poop
1/12/21 4:43 am April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] Hawk Poop
1/12/21 3:50 am Phil Bugosh <peb729...> [birders] Tonight, Tuesday January 12, 7:00 pm, OAS Zoom Meeting/Program. Everyone is invited
1/11/21 3:48 pm sdseeger <sdseeger...> Re: [birders] Buffalo Soldiers: The Original Park Rangers | The Student Conservation Association
1/11/21 2:21 pm April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] Buffalo Soldiers: The Original Park Rangers | The Student Conservation Association
1/10/21 9:32 am 'Denise' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Long eared owl
1/10/21 3:43 am Phil Bugosh <peb729...> [birders] Oakland Audubon Society Zoom Meeting/Program Tuesday January 12, 7:00 pm. Everyone is invited
1/9/21 4:09 pm Dan Fox <dfoxmi...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/9/21 12:35 pm Chris Hensick <hensick...> [birders] Request To Change My eMail Address
1/9/21 10:21 am April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] T-shirt style
1/9/21 8:10 am Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/9/21 6:44 am Mark Bradtke <mabmrmc...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/9/21 6:20 am Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/9/21 5:25 am Susan Falcone <sfalcone...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/8/21 4:46 pm Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/8/21 4:40 pm Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/8/21 4:32 pm Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/8/21 3:26 pm Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
1/8/21 8:03 am 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Great blue heron
1/7/21 6:34 pm Mag Tait <magtait1...> Re: [birders] Great blue heron
1/7/21 2:41 pm 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Great blue heron
1/7/21 7:50 am Frances Wright <tarmacvista...> Re: [birders] light pollution
1/6/21 6:05 pm April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] Andy Jones, Ph.d
1/6/21 1:31 pm 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Bald Eagles on Lake St. Clair
1/6/21 10:10 am 'Sally K. Scheer' via Birders <birders...> [birders] light pollution
1/6/21 9:57 am 'Sally K. Scheer' via Birders <birders...> RE: [birders] Not directly bird-related but close...
1/5/21 3:38 pm 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Fwd: Bald eagles and Canvasbacks
1/5/21 3:11 pm Beth McCullough Adas <beth...> [birders] Fwd: Collaborating Well at The Stewardship Network Conference 2021!
1/5/21 1:23 pm Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> [birders] Ford Farm, Superior Twp., 2-3,000 Canada Geese
1/5/21 10:20 am Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Not directly bird-related but close...
1/5/21 10:10 am Beverly Wolf <bev_wolf...> [birders] robins
1/5/21 8:59 am Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...> [birders] Not directly bird-related but close...
1/5/21 8:27 am Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Large movement of Ducks on the Clinton River
1/5/21 8:11 am Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...> [birders] Large movement of Ducks on the Clinton River
1/3/21 10:46 am 'Edie Britt' via Birders <birders...> RE: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
1/1/21 12:23 pm 'Bill Rapai' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Kirtland's Warbler Alliance seeks your suggestions
12/31/20 4:32 pm Mary Wise <auntyem...> Re: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/31/20 4:13 pm Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> RE: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/31/20 3:57 pm Mary Wise <auntyem...> ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/31/20 3:00 pm baikalteal13 <baikalteal13...> [birders] How to subscribe to the listserver
12/31/20 1:57 pm 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/31/20 12:45 pm 'Alice Elliott' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/31/20 7:01 am Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/31/20 5:56 am Penny <dorfdoom...> [birders] Lake St. Clair sightings
12/30/20 7:56 pm Linda Berauer <lberauer...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 7:54 pm Anna walker <awmtngal...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 6:49 pm Timothy McKay <tamckay...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 6:42 pm Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 5:19 pm Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 3:40 pm 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 3:09 pm 'pat j' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 2:03 pm Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...> Re: [birders] Redpolls
12/30/20 1:55 pm Jeff Day <dayjef71...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 1:48 pm 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 1:06 pm Linda Berauer <lberauer...> Re: [birders] Need suggestions for new bird-feeding people
12/30/20 12:53 pm 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 12:52 pm 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 12:31 pm Eric Arnold <eba...> Re: [birders] Need suggestions for new bird-feeding people
12/30/20 12:12 pm <ibblazin...> RE: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 11:54 am Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 11:26 am 'George Hammond' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Need suggestions for new bird-feeding people
12/30/20 11:15 am Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 8:54 am WayneF <waynef...> Re: [birders] Binocular choices
12/30/20 8:21 am Ellen Weatherbee <eew...> [birders] Need suggestions for new bird-feeding people
12/30/20 6:47 am 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/30/20 6:20 am 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Evening Grosbeaks - in Georgia
12/30/20 4:17 am Mag Tait <magtait1...> Re: [birders] "Do I have something on my beak?"
12/29/20 9:39 pm Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> RE: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 9:05 pm Jchordash <jchordash...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 6:47 pm Mary Wise <auntyem...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 6:46 pm <juliet.berger...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 6:34 pm Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 3:54 pm The Seeker <the_seeker11...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 3:35 pm Kathie Gourlay <gourlay222...> Re: [birders] Binocular choices
12/29/20 2:55 pm Linda Berauer <lberauer...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 2:30 pm Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 1:53 pm Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Binocular choices
12/29/20 11:51 am April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] "Do I have something on my beak?"
12/29/20 11:39 am The Seeker <the_seeker11...> Re: [birders] House Sparrow - it's what's for lunch!
12/29/20 11:29 am The Seeker <the_seeker11...> Re: [birders] Binocular choices
12/29/20 11:28 am April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] House Sparrow - it's what's for lunch!
12/29/20 10:20 am ddarm ddarm <ddarm...> [birders] Binocular choices
12/29/20 9:31 am <juliet.berger...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 9:28 am Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> RE: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 8:55 am 'jochen roeder' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 8:39 am wilsonri <wilsonri101...> [birders] Bald Eagle pair at Devils Lake Lenawee county
12/29/20 8:26 am Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 8:05 am Penny <dorfdoom...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 7:58 am Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 7:47 am Ann Alvarez <annra.new...> Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/29/20 1:53 am April Campbell <adc14...> [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
12/27/20 1:12 pm Ann Alvarez <annra.new...> Re: [birders] PISI @ feeder
12/27/20 12:02 pm Anna Walker <awmtngal...> [birders] PISI @ feeder
12/26/20 5:14 pm Penny <dorfdoom...> [birders] Re: [se-mi-birdlist] Non-bird: Mass die-off of birds in southwestern US 'caused by starvation'
12/26/20 12:49 pm Michael Parow <mlparow...> [birders] 120+ Sandhills Cranes flying west
12/26/20 11:25 am 'Mike Sefton' via Birders <birders...> [birders] Non-bird: Mass die-off of birds in southwestern US 'caused by starvation'
12/23/20 5:53 pm Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> Re: [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 4:46 pm 'Tom Shaffer' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 4:10 pm Michael Parow <mlparow...> Re: [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 3:57 pm Eve Wilson <evew...> Re: [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 2:38 pm Beverly Wolf <bev_wolf...> Re: [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 1:52 pm 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders <birders...> Re: [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 1:45 pm Eve Wilson <evew...> Re: [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 12:27 pm Sherri Smith <grackle...> [birders] Eagle
12/23/20 5:45 am Beth McCullough Adas <beth...> [birders] Fwd: Conference Vlog #2! The Stewardship Network Conference 2021
 
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Date: 1/17/21 12:33 pm
From: Mag Tait <magtait1...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched? -- Roundabout thoughts...beware the lengthy ruminations!
I love these ruminations. The wildlife including the birds have definitely grown used to and expect the daily food replenishments. I love having a chickadee land above me as I fill the peanutbutter log or have a rowdy bunch yelling at me to hurry up.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 17, 2021, at 1:25 PM, Linda Berauer <lberauer...> wrote:
>
> 
> Thank you for these "lengthy ruminations" - fascinating and much appreciated!
>
>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 1:05 PM John Farmer <ajf-jlf...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> We also participate in Feeder Watch (now in our thirty-second year, as well as submitting numbers to the Michigan Audubon Society's Winter Feeder Survey). The birds and other wildlife we see from our windows provides untold hours of entertainment and learning for us, especially during the past two winters of COVID-based discontent.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no doubt that the regular visitors associate me with their food supply. While filling the seed feeders between us and the Saline River 50' to the rear of the house, I repeatedly do my best imitation of a Chickadee call, and the Downies, Titmice, Chickadees, and Nuthatches clearly heed the calls, coming in to wait just yards from wherever I am refilling one or another of their larders. And the single cup-sized container of peanuts-in-the-shell is under attack by Jays, Titmice, and an occasional Chickadee or Nuthatch no sooner than I close the door of our walk-out basement, and all of the nuts are predictably "squirreled" away within minutes.
>>
>>
>>
>> We do occasionally hear the bird equivalent of "fill 'er up" from the resident Red-bellies if the daily ration of 3 or 4 oz. of the raw fat procured from the local slaughter house is hours over-due. And it is not uncommon to have a nuthatch, Carolina Wren, or Down walk the 1/2" PVC balance beam hanging under the eaves not 5-feet from my laptop as I look out from my study. They inspect the open ends of those plastic tubes that support the bird netting to protect them from window glass collisions, looking for the spider stores or ensconced insects that may have sought shelter during the last warm day.
>>
>>
>>
>> We feed each past summer's nesting Bluebird pair and their surviving offspring in a re-configured nest box set beside our front steps. (See attached pics.) Again, while re-stocking the blue mayo jar lid with mealworms that I place in the box, I do my version of their sweet, thin call, and when the birds are a well-established pair, they will begin appearing for their daily feast no sooner than I'm back inside the front door. When they are particularly hungry, it is not unusual for one of the birds to perch on the window sills of the front porch, clearly appearing to be looking in to see if we're on our way with their freeze-dried goodies.
>>
>>
>>
>> And then there are the squirrels (a typical January day will find a half dozen Fox Squirrels and a like total of Grays, more or less evenly split between Black and Gray forms. I have baffles to discourage their acrobatic attempts to walk the plastic coated wire clothesline that supports a full complement of seed feeders. We chuckle to see them spin the "steering wheels" made of gallon ice cream container lids, only to lose their balance and fall off or swing under the wire to beat a hasty retreat hand-over-hand to the anchor tree. By morning the improvised suet feeders are always empty, having provided snacks during nocturnal visits by the area's 'Possums and Raccoons.
>>
>>
>>
>> The above doesn't exactly address your question, but hits around the edges. Anthropomorphizing the activities of non-human species was the only way we farm folks had to explain the actions of "lesser animals" as I was growing up in the '40's and '50's, but was strictly verboten by the academics I studied under in the early 'sixties. Now, as we know more about the animal mind, it is growing more fashionable to "call 'em as we see 'em," and I shouldn't be surprised if someday we'll find that the same neurons and brain regions are firing among our food dependent birds and squirrels when they look house-ward as are activated in the heads of a stand-up comedian or ambitious politician when in the thrall of their crowds.
>>
>>
>>
>> I used to collect wild stream fish with my students during my high school teaching days. I rigged up a long glass tube with rubber bulb at one end for feeding early instars of mealworms to local Darter species on the bottom of the room aquarium. After several days of such feeding shortly after I entered the room and turned on the light, my assessment of the intelligence of those "lowly" fish was forced into revision. No sooner would the light come on than I'd notice the little fish rise from the bottom of the tank on the side nearest my approach, clearly anticipating it's breakfast. It was clear that some form of operant conditioning was going on, but it remains to be determined who was the subject and who the manipulaor!
>>
>>
>>
>> JF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...>
>> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021 10:32 AM
>> To: Birders UM <birders...>
>> Subject: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched?
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, not the ones who typically land near you by accident or those you sneak-up on. I’m talking about “feeder” birds. As I’m doing my duties again for another season of “Feeder Watch”, I’ve decided they do. Now when I casually glance out to the feeders over the course of a day, I don’t see much activity but...when I make a concerted effort to remain by the window for a couple hours, I swear their interest and activity increases. This will happen no matter what time of day I begin my counts on. Could it be over time that birds recognize and appreciate the companionship of a large benevolent creature while they are distracted by eating? Do they value me for my eyes and ears as an aid in detecting predators or in dissuading foes by my very size and presence? Any corroborating evidence of similar experiences from the field? How many of you notice the birds calling to each other or to you when you finally walk around your yard with food after having let the feeders run empty? For me it’s the Cardinals and Jays. Who really seem to let me have it and they alert the entire neighborhood that “dinner’s on”.
>>
>>
>>
>> From Fred’s IPhone
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
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>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>> ---
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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--
Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
---
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Back to top
Date: 1/17/21 10:25 am
From: Linda Berauer <lberauer...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched? -- Roundabout thoughts...beware the lengthy ruminations!
Thank you for these "lengthy ruminations" - fascinating and much
appreciated!

On Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 1:05 PM John Farmer <ajf-jlf...> wrote:

>
>
> We also participate in Feeder Watch (now in our thirty-second year, as
> well as submitting numbers to the Michigan Audubon Society's Winter Feeder
> Survey). The birds and other wildlife we see from our windows provides
> untold hours of entertainment and learning for us, especially during the
> past two winters of COVID-based discontent.
>
>
>
> There is no doubt that the regular visitors associate me with their food
> supply. While filling the seed feeders between us and the Saline River 50'
> to the rear of the house, I repeatedly do my best imitation of a Chickadee
> call, and the Downies, Titmice, Chickadees, and Nuthatches clearly heed the
> calls, coming in to wait just yards from wherever I am refilling one or
> another of their larders. And the single cup-sized container of
> peanuts-in-the-shell is under attack by Jays, Titmice, and an occasional
> Chickadee or Nuthatch no sooner than I close the door of our walk-out
> basement, and all of the nuts are predictably "squirreled" away within
> minutes.
>
>
>
> We do occasionally hear the bird equivalent of "fill 'er up" from the
> resident Red-bellies if the daily ration of 3 or 4 oz. of the raw fat
> procured from the local slaughter house is hours over-due. And it is not
> uncommon to have a nuthatch, Carolina Wren, or Down walk the 1/2" PVC
> balance beam hanging under the eaves not 5-feet from my laptop as I look
> out from my study. They inspect the open ends of those plastic tubes that
> support the bird netting to protect them from window glass collisions,
> looking for the spider stores or ensconced insects that may have sought
> shelter during the last warm day.
>
>
>
> We feed each past summer's nesting Bluebird pair and their surviving
> offspring in a re-configured nest box set beside our front steps. (See
> attached pics.) Again, while re-stocking the blue mayo jar lid with
> mealworms that I place in the box, I do my version of their sweet, thin
> call, and when the birds are a well-established pair, they will begin
> appearing for their daily feast no sooner than I'm back inside the front
> door. When they are particularly hungry, it is not unusual for one of the
> birds to perch on the window sills of the front porch, clearly appearing to
> be looking in to see if we're on our way with their freeze-dried goodies.
>
>
>
> And then there are the squirrels (a typical January day will find a half
> dozen Fox Squirrels and a like total of Grays, more or less evenly split
> between Black and Gray forms. I have baffles to discourage their acrobatic
> attempts to walk the plastic coated wire clothesline that supports a full
> complement of seed feeders. We chuckle to see them spin the "steering
> wheels" made of gallon ice cream container lids, only to lose their balance
> and fall off or swing under the wire to beat a hasty retreat hand-over-hand
> to the anchor tree. By morning the improvised suet feeders are always
> empty, having provided snacks during nocturnal visits by the area's
> 'Possums and Raccoons.
>
>
>
> The above doesn't exactly address your question, but hits around the
> edges. Anthropomorphizing the activities of non-human species was the only
> way we farm folks had to explain the actions of "lesser animals" as I was
> growing up in the '40's and '50's, but was strictly verboten by the
> academics I studied under in the early 'sixties. Now, as we know more
> about the animal mind, it is growing more fashionable to "call 'em as we
> see 'em," and I shouldn't be surprised if someday we'll find that the same
> neurons and brain regions are firing among our food dependent birds and
> squirrels when they look house-ward as are activated in the heads of a
> stand-up comedian or ambitious politician when in the thrall of their
> crowds.
>
>
>
> I used to collect wild stream fish with my students during my high school
> teaching days. I rigged up a long glass tube with rubber bulb at one end
> for feeding early instars of mealworms to local Darter species on the
> bottom of the room aquarium. After several days of such feeding shortly
> after I entered the room and turned on the light, my assessment of the
> intelligence of those "lowly" fish was forced into revision. No sooner
> would the light come on than I'd notice the little fish rise from the
> bottom of the tank on the side nearest my approach, clearly anticipating
> it's breakfast. It was clear that some form of operant conditioning was
> going on, but it remains to be determined who was the subject and who the
> manipulaor!
>
>
>
> JF
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...>
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 17, 2021 10:32 AM
> *To:* Birders UM <birders...>
> *Subject:* [birders] Do birds “like” being watched?
>
>
>
> Well, not the ones who typically land near you by accident or those you
> sneak-up on. I’m talking about “feeder” birds. As I’m doing my duties
> again for another season of “Feeder Watch”, I’ve decided they do. Now when
> I casually glance out to the feeders over the course of a day, I don’t see
> much activity but...when I make a concerted effort to remain by the window
> for a couple hours, I swear their interest and activity increases. This
> will happen no matter what time of day I begin my counts on. Could it be
> over time that birds recognize and appreciate the companionship of a large
> benevolent creature while they are distracted by eating? Do they value me
> for my eyes and ears as an aid in detecting predators or in dissuading foes
> by my very size and presence? Any corroborating evidence of similar
> experiences from the field? How many of you notice the birds calling to
> each other or to you when you finally walk around your yard with food after
> having let the feeders run empty? For me it’s the Cardinals and Jays. Who
> really seem to let me have it and they alert the entire neighborhood that
> “dinner’s on”.
>
>
>
> From Fred’s IPhone
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<DM6PR14MB2364441454CAF0B524B32E84F9A50...>
> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<DM6PR14MB2364441454CAF0B524B32E84F9A50...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/000901d6ecf9%24f0663410%24d1329c30%<24...>
> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/000901d6ecf9%24f0663410%24d1329c30%<24...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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Back to top
Date: 1/17/21 10:05 am
From: John Farmer <ajf-jlf...>
Subject: RE: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched? -- Roundabout thoughts...beware the lengthy ruminations!


We also participate in Feeder Watch (now in our thirty-second year, as well as submitting numbers to the Michigan Audubon Society's Winter Feeder Survey). The birds and other wildlife we see from our windows provides untold hours of entertainment and learning for us, especially during the past two winters of COVID-based discontent.



There is no doubt that the regular visitors associate me with their food supply. While filling the seed feeders between us and the Saline River 50' to the rear of the house, I repeatedly do my best imitation of a Chickadee call, and the Downies, Titmice, Chickadees, and Nuthatches clearly heed the calls, coming in to wait just yards from wherever I am refilling one or another of their larders. And the single cup-sized container of peanuts-in-the-shell is under attack by Jays, Titmice, and an occasional Chickadee or Nuthatch no sooner than I close the door of our walk-out basement, and all of the nuts are predictably "squirreled" away within minutes.



We do occasionally hear the bird equivalent of "fill 'er up" from the resident Red-bellies if the daily ration of 3 or 4 oz. of the raw fat procured from the local slaughter house is hours over-due. And it is not uncommon to have a nuthatch, Carolina Wren, or Down walk the 1/2" PVC balance beam hanging under the eaves not 5-feet from my laptop as I look out from my study. They inspect the open ends of those plastic tubes that support the bird netting to protect them from window glass collisions, looking for the spider stores or ensconced insects that may have sought shelter during the last warm day.



We feed each past summer's nesting Bluebird pair and their surviving offspring in a re-configured nest box set beside our front steps. (See attached pics.) Again, while re-stocking the blue mayo jar lid with mealworms that I place in the box, I do my version of their sweet, thin call, and when the birds are a well-established pair, they will begin appearing for their daily feast no sooner than I'm back inside the front door. When they are particularly hungry, it is not unusual for one of the birds to perch on the window sills of the front porch, clearly appearing to be looking in to see if we're on our way with their freeze-dried goodies.



And then there are the squirrels (a typical January day will find a half dozen Fox Squirrels and a like total of Grays, more or less evenly split between Black and Gray forms. I have baffles to discourage their acrobatic attempts to walk the plastic coated wire clothesline that supports a full complement of seed feeders. We chuckle to see them spin the "steering wheels" made of gallon ice cream container lids, only to lose their balance and fall off or swing under the wire to beat a hasty retreat hand-over-hand to the anchor tree. By morning the improvised suet feeders are always empty, having provided snacks during nocturnal visits by the area's 'Possums and Raccoons.



The above doesn't exactly address your question, but hits around the edges. Anthropomorphizing the activities of non-human species was the only way we farm folks had to explain the actions of "lesser animals" as I was growing up in the '40's and '50's, but was strictly verboten by the academics I studied under in the early 'sixties. Now, as we know more about the animal mind, it is growing more fashionable to "call 'em as we see 'em," and I shouldn't be surprised if someday we'll find that the same neurons and brain regions are firing among our food dependent birds and squirrels when they look house-ward as are activated in the heads of a stand-up comedian or ambitious politician when in the thrall of their crowds.



I used to collect wild stream fish with my students during my high school teaching days. I rigged up a long glass tube with rubber bulb at one end for feeding early instars of mealworms to local Darter species on the bottom of the room aquarium. After several days of such feeding shortly after I entered the room and turned on the light, my assessment of the intelligence of those "lowly" fish was forced into revision. No sooner would the light come on than I'd notice the little fish rise from the bottom of the tank on the side nearest my approach, clearly anticipating it's breakfast. It was clear that some form of operant conditioning was going on, but it remains to be determined who was the subject and who the manipulaor!



JF





From: Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...>
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2021 10:32 AM
To: Birders UM <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched?



Well, not the ones who typically land near you by accident or those you sneak-up on. I’m talking about “feeder” birds. As I’m doing my duties again for another season of “Feeder Watch”, I’ve decided they do. Now when I casually glance out to the feeders over the course of a day, I don’t see much activity but...when I make a concerted effort to remain by the window for a couple hours, I swear their interest and activity increases. This will happen no matter what time of day I begin my counts on. Could it be over time that birds recognize and appreciate the companionship of a large benevolent creature while they are distracted by eating? Do they value me for my eyes and ears as an aid in detecting predators or in dissuading foes by my very size and presence? Any corroborating evidence of similar experiences from the field? How many of you notice the birds calling to each other or to you when you finally walk around your yard with food after having let the feeders run empty? For me it’s the Cardinals and Jays. Who really seem to let me have it and they alert the entire neighborhood that “dinner’s on”.



From Fred’s IPhone

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Back to top
Date: 1/17/21 7:32 am
From: Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...>
Subject: [birders] Do birds “like” being watched?
Well, not the ones who typically land near you by accident or those you sneak-up on. I’m talking about “feeder” birds. As I’m doing my duties again for another season of “Feeder Watch”, I’ve decided they do. Now when I casually glance out to the feeders over the course of a day, I don’t see much activity but...when I make a concerted effort to remain by the window for a couple hours, I swear their interest and activity increases. This will happen no matter what time of day I begin my counts on. Could it be over time that birds recognize and appreciate the companionship of a large benevolent creature while they are distracted by eating? Do they value me for my eyes and ears as an aid in detecting predators or in dissuading foes by my very size and presence? Any corroborating evidence of similar experiences from the field? How many of you notice the birds calling to each other or to you when you finally walk around your yard with food after having let the feeders run empty? For me it’s the Cardinals and Jays. Who really seem to let me have it and they alert the entire neighborhood that “dinner’s on”.

From Fred’s IPhone

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Back to top
Date: 1/16/21 3:50 pm
From: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
Subject: [birders] Bald Eagle
Flying over the Huron River at 2:50 p.m. Was with a friend and her dog at
the dog park. Never knew it was there (the dog park).

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Back to top
Date: 1/15/21 3:10 pm
From: Tait, Mag <mtait...>
Subject: [birders] Help protect wild birds from deadly salmonellosis | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife
My daughter sent me this asking for advice. She does not get finches at her feeders. I think cleaning the feeders would be the minimum but thought I would ask what our experts think.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/news/help-protect-wild-birds-deadly-salmonellosis


Sent from my iPhone
**********************************************************
Electronic Mail is not secure, may not be read every day, and should not be used for urgent or sensitive issues

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Back to top
Date: 1/15/21 4:30 am
From: 'John Gannon' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Red-wing blackbirds
I had two male red-winged blackbirds at my platform feeder (oil sunflower seeds) yesterday morning.  I checked my Feederwatch records that date back to 2002.  This only the 2nd time I have observed red-wing blackbirds here (next to the Hudson Mills Metropark Group Camp) during the month of January.  My only other record for this month is a single male on January 13, 2009.   Also, I have been seeing a few robins all week, but yesterday, there was a flock of 50-60 individuals near the group camp entrance for a long time, feeding on buckthorn and honeysuckle fruits.JohnDexter Twp.

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Back to top
Date: 1/14/21 11:10 am
From: Beth McCullough Adas <beth...>
Subject: [birders] Fwd: Conference Vlog #3 + 01/13 Event with Sarah Jaquette Ray!
Our conference starts in less than two weeks! Register today for just $99!


/Having trouble viewing this email? View it in your web browser
<https://stewardshipnetwork.salsalabs.org/011220-2021conferenceemail9-a?wvpId=14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>/


*Reimagining Connections: The Stewardship Network Conference 2021*
*Wednesday, January 27th, 2021 - Friday, January 29th, 2021*

_/Registration is only $99! (student & elder rates are available)/_
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T562e3545-3a57-43e2-b1ce-aa10c8e74148/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


Click Here To Register
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T86dcf25d-79dc-4bc3-934f-681ddae08250/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


Beginning daily at 12pm Eastern - Presented virtually via H
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T009b6590-c0e2-46e2-8d96-b0fbbe0ac264/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>opin
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T3ee55cd0-df0b-46e3-9fb2-713f46092848/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>
Visit our conference website at
https://conference.stewardshipnetwork.org
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T822a0788-89bb-41d9-8597-61f81d273fc8/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


RSVP to the Facebook event here
<https://default.salsalabs.org/Tfd5d5453-bcfd-4bfa-b092-6aa28cbbec16/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>.


<https://default.salsalabs.org/T0fcf48ce-a323-41f6-a24b-689342157eed/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


_*Conference Vlog #3: Yakuta Poonawalla (Golden Gate National Parks
Conservancy)*_

We are so happy to bring you this clip from December 2020 of Yakuta
Poonawalla, San Francisco Community Programs Manager at The Golden Gate
National Parks Conservancy, as she describes her experience
participating virtually at our 2020 Conference and why she's excited
about being a part of our first ever virtual conference in 2021!

*_C
<https://default.salsalabs.org/Tfe9bf33e-ab9a-48a8-8fa4-2135b7b10cf2/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>lick
here to view the video on YouTube
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T50dc656c-7f7d-4614-b19b-6cdce8018b96/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>_*



Book Sale Event Wednesday, 1/13 @ 7pm

Join us on Wednesday, January 13th, 2021 for our first Zoom event as we
host Sarah Jaquette Ray to talk about her book, A Field Guide to Climate
Anxiety
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T1e041cb1-2ae3-4da1-88c3-7a95e9addaff/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>/./


*Click here to join in via the Schuler Books Facebook page on 1/13 at
7pm!
<https://default.salsalabs.org/Td78071aa-eecf-4f20-958c-5eb539233b81/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>*



Join Us For Our Conference Story Slam!

We are so pleased to bring back the Stewardship Network Story Slam this
year hosted by Patricia Wheeler, producer of The Moth StorySLAM series
in Detroit and Ann Arbor! Please sign up in advance if you would like to
tell a story by emailing <rob...>


*Conference Information:*

_*Register Today!*_
<https://default.salsalabs.org/Tc47d6187-269d-4af3-bf05-e7682779f9a1/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


Click the link above to register for the 2021 Conference! General
admission is only $99 - Student and Elder rates are available.

_*2021 Agenda*_
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T51a7887e-e50a-4d80-9f28-b7183555b717/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


View the updated PDF and interactive agendas, including our featured
speakers, concurrent sessions, and special activities!

_*Keynote Speakers*_
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T09430677-00ee-41a4-bb7c-001199e95f12/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


Learn more about our keynote speakers for the 2021 Conference, Mamie
Parker and Armando Quintero!


*Thank you to our 2021 Sponsors!*

We are honored the following sponsors of our 2021 conference! Their
support will help further our mission of connecting, equipping, and
mobilizing people and organizations to care for land and water in their
community.

Please visit our sponsorship page
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T8bd1f902-764f-46f2-ab28-27a336d61f1a/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>more
information about this year's opportunities. Many of the levels include
a generous number of complimentary conference registrations!


Habitat Guardians:


The Collaborating Well Initiative

Contributing partners:

* California Landscape Stewardship Network
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T682c740d-498d-422b-81f5-8a3c13f24550/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* California State University, Sacramento
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T1caca48d-76b1-4444-8840-b6f17952ab16/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* Golden Gate National Parks Conservancy
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T00c63356-fdfc-45a0-9597-0d64b137d75e/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* Lincoln Institute of Land Policy
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T430e5637-0796-405c-9d9f-6c994d5415d7/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* Network for Landscape Conservation
<https://default.salsalabs.org/Taf63e33b-9e6d-44ac-bf4f-6060a5d5c905/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


* Network for Landscape Conservation
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T0a4f6fe7-33fa-4b94-93b9-9706f1e011dd/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* One Tam
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T52d23bcd-2640-401e-9d77-0a9ea5334d34/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>/
Marin County Parks
<https://default.salsalabs.org/Ta7ec09e8-5457-4147-84f8-aa6efeb8f113/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* Santa Cruz Mountains Stewardship Network
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T369035ec-8de2-4169-bd86-70990c028673/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* The Stewardship Network
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T84f5ad07-15c6-447b-b70d-45b21d876962/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>

* University of Montana
<https://default.salsalabs.org/T6680b50e-f212-4868-a5f3-ec8c3a2c1ec5/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>



&

<https://default.salsalabs.org/Te93ea945-d75f-45b9-9bfe-fdb4cb04c54c/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>



*Community Sponsors:*

<https://default.salsalabs.org/T988b24b8-bee9-4e9a-a2ac-6ebffb5b83e0/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


<https://default.salsalabs.org/T325b3c8c-ca33-4833-8203-5a44c643af5f/14d405cf-8f3f-4ddf-8cb7-e88512ff03ca>


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Date: 1/14/21 8:00 am
From: Barb Myckowiak <bmyckowiak911...>
Subject: [birders] Fw: Update on Jerin's accident and Virtual Birding Tours
Dear birding friends,
I did a virtual Panama birding trip with this group last year and it was amazing. They did it for free and just asked for donations at the end.   I'm forwarding this message because I think as birders we need to support these good people. This is very sad.  I am personally going to help with some funds.  I hope that you might also consider this.
Thanks,Barb MyckowiakCharlotte, MI
----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Panama Day Trips <panamadaytrips...>Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021, 12:36:52 PM ESTSubject: Update on Jerin's accident and Virtual Birding Tours
Good afternoon everybody,
First off, we wish you a Happy New Year with the hopes that 2021 will be better than 2020.  Unfortunately for us, 2020 ended in tragedy as our tour guide Jerin was involved in a very serious accident in his tour bus.  Luckily Jerin survived, but he has a very long road to recovery ahead of him including surgeries and physical therapy.  The tour bus was completely destroyed but that is only material stuff, we are extremely thankful and lucky that nobody lost their life in the accident.  Jerin's mother has created a Go Fund Me page for anybody who would like to contribute to his recovery.  Here is a link to the Go Fund Me:https://gofund.me/5f41fe19
We have no doubt that he will recover completely and come back stronger than ever, but it will be a very long and expensive road. 
As far as the virtual birding tours go, the accident has taken away our ability to offer anything in the near future.  When Jerin was carried away in the ambulance, the van was looted before we could get to it.  All of our scopes, binoculars, and other tour equipment was stolen.  At this moment we do not have the financial means to replace these things as our priority is the well being of Jerin.  We do promise that as soon as we are able we will be offering some special virtual birding tours for you guys.  I hate to send such negative news to start the year.  As a tour company our emails are usually pure positivity.  We just wanted to give you an update on everything and let you know we haven't forgotten about you during these difficult times.  If you have questions please do not hesitate to contact me and we hope to see you soon! 
Cynthia



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Date: 1/13/21 4:24 pm
From: Penny <dorfdoom...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
Such a wealth of information about bird poop. Very funny

> On Jan 13, 2021, at 7:08 PM, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>
> 
> This is to thank each of you for sharing the bird poop stories and info. I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
> No stories to share, but I have seen female birds removing the fecal sacs, esp. up north.
>
> Lisa
>
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:04 PM Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...> wrote:
>> The best bird poop story I have happened at a quarry. We saw a black-crowned night heron take off, and it was being chased by several redwings, which were below and behind him. He let loose with a long string of poop, which sailed down and wrapped around a redwing's neck. The redwing went tumbling down to the ground! We laughed so hard!
>>
>> Janet Hinshaw
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 5:03 PM Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>>> My birdbath would attest to that inclination!
>>>
>>> Eve
>>>
>>> Ann Arbor
>>>
>>> From: Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:54:22 PM
>>> To: George Hammond
>>> Cc: BIRDERS@UMICH
>>> Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
>>>
>>> I think birds dropping fecal sacs and also pooping into water is pretty common. I’m not sure why, seems like it would be more sanitary to drop it on the ground somewhere away from the nest. The captive finches we had at the museum would usually poop in their water bowls, so I think they were doing it on purpose.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:10 PM, 'George Hammond' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Grackles often nest near water and are widely reported to deliberately drop fecal sacks into water, even into small puddles and birdbaths. Might be a particularly effective way to hide them from nest predators. Could be worse, some birds eat the fecal sacs of their nestlings.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically
>>>>
>>>> https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
>>>>>> grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better than loose stools.
>>>>>> Penny.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Stevie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a different color.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's fecal sac maybe...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
>>>>>>>> April,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<EBFC05E8-7055-4AEB-9D67-76B4ACF96E35...>
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>>
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Date: 1/13/21 4:13 pm
From: Scott Manly <manlyrs...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
I am guessing many of you have seen this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzjLlqIuVhI

[https://www.bing.com/th?<id...>&pid=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzjLlqIuVhI>
Bird Poops In Mouth<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzjLlqIuVhI>
[The whole story: http://tinyurl.com/2fkvd2 ] Local news guy reports on the canadian brown finch overpopulation in town now. The birds don't like being called an infestation and let us know by totally dropping a deuce in dude's mouth! So funny!
www.youtube.com
Scott Manly,
Shellbrook, Saskatchewan, Canada
________________________________
From: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 6:08 PM
To: Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...>
Cc: BIRDERS@UMICH <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop

This is to thank each of you for sharing the bird poop stories and info. I am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
No stories to share, but I have seen female birds removing the fecal sacs, esp. up north.

Lisa

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:04 PM Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...><mailto:<jhinshaw...>> wrote:
The best bird poop story I have happened at a quarry. We saw a black-crowned night heron take off, and it was being chased by several redwings, which were below and behind him. He let loose with a long string of poop, which sailed down and wrapped around a redwing's neck. The redwing went tumbling down to the ground! We laughed so hard!

Janet Hinshaw


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 5:03 PM Eve Wilson <evew...><mailto:<evew...>> wrote:

My birdbath would attest to that inclination!

Eve

Ann Arbor

________________________________
From: Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...><mailto:<jhinshaw...>>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:54:22 PM
To: George Hammond
Cc: BIRDERS@UMICH
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop

I think birds dropping fecal sacs and also pooping into water is pretty common. I’m not sure why, seems like it would be more sanitary to drop it on the ground somewhere away from the nest. The captive finches we had at the museum would usually poop in their water bowls, so I think they were doing it on purpose.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:10 PM, 'George Hammond' via Birders <birders...><mailto:<birders...>> wrote:

Grackles often nest near water and are widely reported to deliberately drop fecal sacks into water, even into small puddles and birdbaths. Might be a particularly effective way to hide them from nest predators. Could be worse, some birds eat the fecal sacs of their nestlings.

https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically

https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/


George

On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...><mailto:<dorfdoom...>> wrote:

I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better than loose stools.
Penny.

On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...><mailto:<amazilia3...>> wrote:


Stevie,

Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a different color.

To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?


On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...><mailto:<Stevie19...>> wrote:
I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's fecal sac maybe...


On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
April,

I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.

Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...><mailto:<adc14...>> wrote:
So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!


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Date: 1/13/21 4:08 pm
From: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
This is to thank each of you for sharing the bird poop stories and info. I
am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
No stories to share, but I have seen female birds removing the fecal sacs,
esp. up north.

Lisa

On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:04 PM Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...> wrote:

> The best bird poop story I have happened at a quarry. We saw a
> black-crowned night heron take off, and it was being chased by several
> redwings, which were below and behind him. He let loose with a long string
> of poop, which sailed down and wrapped around a redwing's neck. The redwing
> went tumbling down to the ground! We laughed so hard!
>
> Janet Hinshaw
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 5:03 PM Eve Wilson <evew...>
> wrote:
>
>> My birdbath would attest to that inclination!
>>
>> Eve
>>
>> Ann Arbor
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:54:22 PM
>> *To:* George Hammond
>> *Cc:* BIRDERS@UMICH
>> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Hawk poop
>>
>> I think birds dropping fecal sacs and also pooping into water is pretty
>> common. I’m not sure why, seems like it would be more sanitary to drop it
>> on the ground somewhere away from the nest. The captive finches we had at
>> the museum would usually poop in their water bowls, so I think they were
>> doing it on purpose.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:10 PM, 'George Hammond' via Birders <
>> <birders...> wrote:
>>
>> Grackles often nest near water and are widely reported to deliberately
>> drop fecal sacks into water, even into small puddles and birdbaths. Might
>> be a particularly effective way to hide them from nest predators. Could be
>> worse, some birds eat the fecal sacs of their nestlings.
>>
>> https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically
>>
>>
>> https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/
>>
>>
>> George
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>>
>> I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
>> grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the
>> fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better
>> than loose stools.
>> Penny.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Stevie,
>>
>> Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is
>> removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is
>> often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a
>> different color.
>>
>> To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process
>> of females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can
>> projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different
>> process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like
>> peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through
>> our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our
>> "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet
>> Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and
>>> baby's fecal sac maybe...
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
>>>
>>> April,
>>>
>>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the
>>> ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for
>>> getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation
>>> but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>>
>>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their
>>> fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they
>>> get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of
>>> the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected
>>>> screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream
>>>> of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special
>>>> muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What
>>>> evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an
>>>> anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this
>>>> topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>>>
>>>
>> --
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Date: 1/13/21 4:04 pm
From: Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
The best bird poop story I have happened at a quarry. We saw a
black-crowned night heron take off, and it was being chased by several
redwings, which were below and behind him. He let loose with a long string
of poop, which sailed down and wrapped around a redwing's neck. The redwing
went tumbling down to the ground! We laughed so hard!

Janet Hinshaw


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 5:03 PM Eve Wilson <evew...>
wrote:

> My birdbath would attest to that inclination!
>
> Eve
>
> Ann Arbor
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:54:22 PM
> *To:* George Hammond
> *Cc:* BIRDERS@UMICH
> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Hawk poop
>
> I think birds dropping fecal sacs and also pooping into water is pretty
> common. I’m not sure why, seems like it would be more sanitary to drop it
> on the ground somewhere away from the nest. The captive finches we had at
> the museum would usually poop in their water bowls, so I think they were
> doing it on purpose.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:10 PM, 'George Hammond' via Birders <
> <birders...> wrote:
>
> Grackles often nest near water and are widely reported to deliberately
> drop fecal sacks into water, even into small puddles and birdbaths. Might
> be a particularly effective way to hide them from nest predators. Could be
> worse, some birds eat the fecal sacs of their nestlings.
>
> https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically
>
>
> https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/
>
>
> George
>
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>
> I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
> grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the
> fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better
> than loose stools.
> Penny.
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
> 
> Stevie,
>
> Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is
> removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is
> often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a
> different color.
>
> To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of
> females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can
> projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different
> process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like
> peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through
> our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our
> "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet
> Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...> wrote:
>
>> I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's
>> fecal sac maybe...
>>
>>
>> On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
>>
>> April,
>>
>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the
>> ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for
>> getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation
>> but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>
>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their
>> fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they
>> get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of
>> the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>
>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected
>>> screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream
>>> of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special
>>> muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What
>>> evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an
>>> anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this
>>> topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>>
>>
> --
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> www.glc.org
> ---
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> .
>
> --
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> www.glc.org
> ---
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> "Birders" group.
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> .
>

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Date: 1/13/21 3:36 pm
From: April Campbell <adc14...>
Subject: [birders] Birds in Greek Mythology
I love Greek Mythology. The stories are outlandishly crazy, imaginative, colorful and often scary. They also reveal much about human nature. I
was rereading some of the myths last night and revisited the tragic tale of Prokne , Philomela and Thereus. Or should I say nightingale, swallow and hoopoe? Check out their story to find out how they became birds. My father’s nickname for me was Zeus. Maybe that’s why I like swans😉
Folks on the list have any favorite literary birds?
Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/13/21 2:03 pm
From: Eve Wilson <evew...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
My birdbath would attest to that inclination!

Eve

Ann Arbor

________________________________
From: Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 1:54:22 PM
To: George Hammond
Cc: BIRDERS@UMICH
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop

I think birds dropping fecal sacs and also pooping into water is pretty common. I’m not sure why, seems like it would be more sanitary to drop it on the ground somewhere away from the nest. The captive finches we had at the museum would usually poop in their water bowls, so I think they were doing it on purpose.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:10 PM, 'George Hammond' via Birders <birders...> wrote:

Grackles often nest near water and are widely reported to deliberately drop fecal sacks into water, even into small puddles and birdbaths. Might be a particularly effective way to hide them from nest predators. Could be worse, some birds eat the fecal sacs of their nestlings.

https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically

https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/


George

On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...><mailto:<dorfdoom...>> wrote:

I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better than loose stools.
Penny.

On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...><mailto:<amazilia3...>> wrote:


Stevie,

Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a different color.

To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?


On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...><mailto:<Stevie19...>> wrote:
I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's fecal sac maybe...


On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
April,

I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.

Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...><mailto:<adc14...>> wrote:
So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!


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Date: 1/13/21 1:54 pm
From: Janet Hinshaw <jhinshaw...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
I think birds dropping fecal sacs and also pooping into water is pretty common. I’m not sure why, seems like it would be more sanitary to drop it on the ground somewhere away from the nest. The captive finches we had at the museum would usually poop in their water bowls, so I think they were doing it on purpose.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2021, at 1:10 PM, 'George Hammond' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>
> Grackles often nest near water and are widely reported to deliberately drop fecal sacks into water, even into small puddles and birdbaths. Might be a particularly effective way to hide them from nest predators. Could be worse, some birds eat the fecal sacs of their nestlings.
>
> https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically
>
> https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/
>
>
> George
>
>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>>
>> I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
>> grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better than loose stools.
>> Penny.
>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>>
>>> 
>>> Stevie,
>>>
>>> Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a different color.
>>>
>>> To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...> wrote:
>>>> I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's fecal sac maybe...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
>>>>> April,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>>>>
>>>>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>
> --
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> ---
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Date: 1/13/21 10:10 am
From: 'George Hammond' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
Grackles often nest near water and are widely reported to deliberately drop fecal sacks into water, even into small puddles and birdbaths. Might be a particularly effective way to hide them from nest predators. Could be worse, some birds eat the fecal sacs of their nestlings.

https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically <https://www.audubon.org/news/what-are-fecal-sacs-bird-diapers-basically>

https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/ <https://wildlife-damage-management.extension.org/i-have-seen-blackbirds-bring-droppings-in-their-beaks-and-deposit-them-in-my-birdbath-they-are-coming-from-the-pine-trees-across-the-street-it-only-takes-half-a-day-before-the-birdbath-becomes-full/>


George

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>
> I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
> grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better than loose stools.
> Penny.

>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Stevie,
>>
>> Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a different color.
>>
>> To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...> <mailto:<Stevie19...>> wrote:
>> I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's fecal sac maybe...
>>
>>
>> On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
>>> April,
>>>
>>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>>
>>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> <mailto:<adc14...>> wrote:
>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!

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Date: 1/13/21 7:49 am
From: Diana Kern <dlkaamitwin...>
Subject: [birders] Winter Wren in Hamburg
What a great little surprise to be visiting a friend that just moved to
Hamburg and looked out her window to see a winter wren sitting in her
window box planter digging in the soil. Her house backs us to a pine tree
and cedar tree grove.
*Have A Great Day,*
*Diana *

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Date: 1/13/21 7:17 am
From: Dan Fox <dfoxmi...>
Subject: Re: [birders] One more quick bird poop story
A couple of years ago in Uganda I had a Black Kite cut loose overhead. Fortunately it had just passed over us, so it’s poop hit the road ahead of us. We had the top off the vehicle at the time.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 10:26 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>
> 
> Great picture.
>
>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:49 PM, Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> wrote:
>>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> My husband came home from work one day to discover the entire back half of my black MR2 with T-Tops completely covered with white bird poop. He dropped everything and took it to the car wash immediately. The guy at prewash looked at him questioningly and Dave said “bird poop”. The guy asked him “Pterodactyl?” True story.
>>
>> Here’s a Blue Bird image carrying away a fecal sac that I shot last year.
>>
>> Beverly Benson Wolf
>> Waterford, MI and
>> Presque Isle, MI
>>
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>> <Male Bluebird Removing Fecal Sac_U9A8438-Recovered.jpg>
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Date: 1/13/21 7:14 am
From: Dan Fox <dfoxmi...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
I’ve regularly had them in the winter behind my Condo in Okemos, this weekend on a walk in Lansing I heard a Carolina Wren duet, saw one of them, but the other was some distance away.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>
> 
> Carolina Wrens have been present in the Ann Arbor area since the 1950's, and have been expanding north through the state and into Ontario. I've heard them in the ravines in Toronto. They've been successful in our area, and survive winter in part due to suet feeders, mealworms and shelled sunflower seeds that people provide at feeders. The population is quite large-- eg. I had 5 Carolina Wrens vocalizing in the Arb on Monday, and I only covered about 1/3 of the area. In harsh winters, the population greatly shrinks. It looks like they're here to stay, and since they sing and defend territory all year long, they are a winter delight! The pair in my yard hop inside to feed in a house style mealworm feeder we set up for our Bluebirds.
> Juliet Berger
> Washtenaw Audubon
>
>
>> On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:56 AM 'John Gannon' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>> Similar to Melissa’s experience, I have had Carolina wrens annually for decades, frequenting suet, heated water and window feeder with dried mealworms. They are here year round, but seen and heard more so in winter.
>> John
>> Dexter Twp.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:35 PM, Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I bird at Kensington MP on the Aspen Trail last season I found 3 nesting pairs of Carolina Wrens.
>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 08:14:22 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> This is only the second time I’ve seen one. I had one Visit last year.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Melissa Pappas <ftknoxfox53...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Melissa Pappas
>>>> Hamburg Township, Livingston County, MI
>>>>
>>>> "One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse to see what God has made." ~ Author Unknown
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
>>>> Eve
>>>> Ann Arbor
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
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>>>
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>>
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Date: 1/13/21 7:07 am
From: Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
Carolina Wrens have been present in the Ann Arbor area since the 1950's,
and have been expanding north through the state and into Ontario. I've
heard them in the ravines in Toronto. They've been successful in our area,
and survive winter in part due to suet feeders, mealworms and shelled
sunflower seeds that people provide at feeders. The population is quite
large-- eg. I had 5 Carolina Wrens vocalizing in the Arb on Monday, and I
only covered about 1/3 of the area. In harsh winters, the population
greatly shrinks. It looks like they're here to stay, and since they sing
and defend territory all year long, they are a winter delight! The pair in
my yard hop inside to feed in a house style mealworm feeder we set up for
our Bluebirds.
Juliet Berger
Washtenaw Audubon


On Wed, Jan 13, 2021 at 7:56 AM 'John Gannon' via Birders <
<birders...> wrote:

> Similar to Melissa’s experience, I have had Carolina wrens annually for
> decades, frequenting suet, heated water and window feeder with dried
> mealworms. They are here year round, but seen and heard more so in winter.
> John
> Dexter Twp.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:35 PM, Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:
>
>
> I bird at Kensington MP on the Aspen Trail last season I found 3 nesting
> pairs of Carolina Wrens.
> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 08:14:22 PM EST, Eve Wilson <
> <evew...> wrote:
>
>
> This is only the second time I’ve seen one. I had one Visit last year.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Melissa Pappas <ftknoxfox53...> wrote:
>
> 
> We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the
> suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water
> features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.
>
>
> *Melissa Pappas*
> *Hamburg Township, Livingston County, MI*
>
> *"One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse
> to see what God has made." ~ Author Unknown*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <
> <evew...> wrote:
>
>
> Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
> Eve
> Ann Arbor
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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> www.glc.org
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> .
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Date: 1/13/21 6:26 am
From: 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Re: Melissa-Carolina Wren question
I have a photo of the feeder I use (and placement) for meal worms if anyone is interested. 
 Melissa PappasHamburg Township, Livingston County, MI





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Date: 1/13/21 4:56 am
From: 'John Gannon' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
Similar to Melissa’s experience, I have had Carolina wrens annually for decades, frequenting suet, heated water and window feeder with dried mealworms. They are here year round, but seen and heard more so in winter.
John
Dexter Twp.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:35 PM, Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:
>
>
> I bird at Kensington MP on the Aspen Trail last season I found 3 nesting pairs of Carolina Wrens.
> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 08:14:22 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>
>
> This is only the second time I’ve seen one. I had one Visit last year.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Melissa Pappas <ftknoxfox53...> wrote:
>>
>
>> 
>> We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.
>>
>>
>> Melissa Pappas
>> Hamburg Township, Livingston County, MI
>>
>> "One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse to see what God has made." ~ Author Unknown
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
>> Eve
>> Ann Arbor
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
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>
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Date: 1/12/21 7:26 pm
From: Penny <dorfdoom...>
Subject: Re: [birders] One more quick bird poop story
Great picture.

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 9:49 PM, Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> wrote:
>
> 
>
>
>
> My husband came home from work one day to discover the entire back half of my black MR2 with T-Tops completely covered with white bird poop. He dropped everything and took it to the car wash immediately. The guy at prewash looked at him questioningly and Dave said “bird poop”. The guy asked him “Pterodactyl?” True story.
>
> Here’s a Blue Bird image carrying away a fecal sac that I shot last year.
>
> Beverly Benson Wolf
> Waterford, MI and
> Presque Isle, MI
>
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Date: 1/12/21 6:57 pm
From: Jean Gramlich <jeangramlich...>
Subject: Re: [birders] One more quick bird poop story
Thank you all for a little hilarity for our 13-year-old selves when our adult selves are dealing with attempted coups, insurrections, etc.

________________________________
From: Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 9:49 PM
To: birders list <birders...>
Subject: [birders] One more quick bird poop story








My husband came home from work one day to discover the entire back half of my black MR2 with T-Tops completely covered with white bird poop. He dropped everything and took it to the car wash immediately. The guy at prewash looked at him questioningly and Dave said “bird poop”. The guy asked him “Pterodactyl?” True story.



Here’s a Blue Bird image carrying away a fecal sac that I shot last year.



Beverly Benson Wolf

Waterford, MI and

Presque Isle, MI



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Date: 1/12/21 6:49 pm
From: Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...>
Subject: [birders] One more quick bird poop story






My husband came home from work one day to discover the entire back half of
my black MR2 with T-Tops completely covered with white bird poop. He
dropped everything and took it to the car wash immediately. The guy at
prewash looked at him questioningly and Dave said "bird poop". The guy
asked him "Pterodactyl?" True story.



Here's a Blue Bird image carrying away a fecal sac that I shot last year.



Beverly Benson Wolf

Waterford, MI and

Presque Isle, MI



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Date: 1/12/21 6:35 pm
From: Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren

I bird at Kensington MP on the Aspen Trail last season I found 3 nesting pairs of Carolina Wrens.
Pat B. Howell, Michigan

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 08:14:22 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:

This is only the second time I’ve seen one. I had one Visit last year. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Melissa Pappas <ftknoxfox53...> wrote:



We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.
 Melissa PappasHamburg Township, Livingston County, MI
"One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse to see what God has made."  ~ Author Unknown     

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:

Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
Eve
Ann Arbor

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/12/21 5:31 pm
From: Penny <dorfdoom...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
I used to have a pool which was surrounded by Arbor Vitae where
grackles love to nest. Every year they would fly over it and drop the fecal sacks in the pool. Quite inconvenient but I suppose it was better than loose stools.
Penny.
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:03 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
> 
> Stevie,
>
> Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is removing a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is often white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a different color.
>
> To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our "enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?
>
> Allen T. Chartier
> Inkster, Michigan
> Email: <amazilia3...>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...> wrote:
>> I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's fecal sac maybe...
>>
>>
>>> On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
>>> April,
>>>
>>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>>
>>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>> ---
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>>
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Date: 1/12/21 5:15 pm
From: Michael inA2 <michaelina2...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
A busy and quite shy Carolina Wren has been visiting my NE-A2 feeder off/on
since Christmas.

Cheers... M
----------

Michael Gay
Ann Arbor, MI

*Michael on Flickr: Life-style/Action/Nature Photography + Livin' the Dream
& Lovin' It ! <https://www.flickr.com/people/michaelina2/?rb=1> *™


On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:46 PM 'Denise' via Birders <
<birders...> wrote:

> We have them in Howell this year too. Only second time in 17 years that I
> know of.
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:29 PM, 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders
> <birders...> wrote:
> We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the
> suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water
> features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.
>
>
> *Melissa Pappas*
> *Hamburg Township, Livingston County, MI*
>
> *"One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse
> to see what God has made." ~ Author Unknown*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <
> <evew...> wrote:
>
>
> Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
> Eve
> Ann Arbor
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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> www.glc.org
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> .
>
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> .
>
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Date: 1/12/21 5:14 pm
From: Eve Wilson <evew...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
This is only the second time I’ve seen one. I had one Visit last year.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Melissa Pappas <ftknoxfox53...> wrote:


We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.


Melissa Pappas
Hamburg Township, Livingston County, MI

"One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse to see what God has made." ~ Author Unknown







On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:


Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
Eve
Ann Arbor

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/12/21 5:03 pm
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
Stevie,

Great photo! Yes, that is what is going on...the parent waxwing is removing
a fecal sac directly from the nestling's cloaca. The fecal sac is often
white, but waxwings feed their young a lot of fruit so can be a different
color.

To address the comment about this possibly being related to the process of
females laying eggs, I'm pretty sure that nestling male birds can
projectile-poop as well as females, so I suspect there is a different
process here. It is my guess that egg laying is something more like
peristalsis that occurs in our own intestines to move food along through
our digestive system, while the poop-shooting needs more force. Maybe our
"enslaved by ducks" guy near Grand Rapids has some insight? Or maybe Janet
Hinshaw has something better than my suppositions?

Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: <amazilia3...>
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:21 PM Stevie <Stevie19...> wrote:

> I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and baby's
> fecal sac maybe...
>
>
> On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
>
> April,
>
> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the
> ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for
> getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation
> but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>
> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their
> fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they
> get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of
> the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>
>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected
>> screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream
>> of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special
>> muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What
>> evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an
>> anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this
>> topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>> www.glc.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<69AB34CF-64A7-4267-BB38-49036FBEF76F...>
>> .
>>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
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> .
>
>
> --
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> ---
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Date: 1/12/21 4:46 pm
From: 'Denise' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
We have them in Howell this year too. Only second time in 17 years that I know of.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 7:29 PM, 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders<birders...> wrote: We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.
 Melissa PappasHamburg Township, Livingston County, MI
"One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse to see what God has made."  ~ Author Unknown     

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:

Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
Eve
Ann Arbor

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/12/21 4:29 pm
From: 'Melissa Pappas' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
We have several Carolina Wrens hanging out at the house. Some are in the suet, others in the mealworms (their favorite) and others in the water features (front & back). We've always had really good numbers.
 Melissa PappasHamburg Township, Livingston County, MI
"One can get in a car and see what man has made. One must get on a horse to see what God has made."  ~ Author Unknown     

On Tuesday, January 12, 2021, 04:52:08 PM EST, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:

Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
Eve
Ann Arbor

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/12/21 4:21 pm
From: Stevie <Stevie19...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
I think that this might be what Allen was talking about parent and
baby's fecal sac maybe...


On 1/12/2021 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier wrote:
> April,
>
> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have
> the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an
> adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only
> for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the
> nest location.
>
> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their
> fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As
> they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the
> edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...>
> <mailto:<adc14...>> wrote:
>
> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly
> erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a
> propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is
> this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to
> allow such a power poo? What evolutionary  purpose might exist for
> having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of
> anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I
> should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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Date: 1/12/21 3:19 pm
From: Eve Wilson <evew...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
😅

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 12, 2021, at 5:10 PM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:


I've had two Carolina Wrens at my feeders today...but they weren't singing a duet at the suet. : )

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 4:57 PM Eve Wilson <evew...><mailto:<evew...>> wrote:
Suet feeder—silly autocorrect !

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Eve Wilson <evew...><mailto:<evew...>> wrote:
>
> Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
> Eve
> Ann Arbor
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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Date: 1/12/21 2:10 pm
From: Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
I've had two Carolina Wrens at my feeders today...but they weren't singing
a duet at the suet. : )

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 4:57 PM Eve Wilson <evew...>
wrote:

> Suet feeder—silly autocorrect !
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Jan 12, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Eve Wilson <evew...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
> > Eve
> > Ann Arbor
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > --
> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
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Date: 1/12/21 1:59 pm
From: Dan Fox <dfoxmi...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
The duet feeder, is that where they sing back and forth between feeding?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 4:57 PM, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>
> Suet feeder—silly autocorrect !
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>>
>> Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
>> Eve
>> Ann Arbor
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
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>
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Date: 1/12/21 1:57 pm
From: Eve Wilson <evew...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Carolina Wren
Suet feeder—silly autocorrect !

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 4:52 PM, Eve Wilson <evew...> wrote:
>
> Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
> Eve
> Ann Arbor
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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> ---
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Date: 1/12/21 1:52 pm
From: Eve Wilson <evew...>
Subject: [birders] Carolina Wren
Just had a Carolina Wren at my duet feeder this afternoon
Eve
Ann Arbor

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/12/21 12:26 pm
From: 'Mike Sefton' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Non-bird: NEW DATE! January Lunch & Learn: Tolima Raptor Count
Begin forwarded message:

> From: Hawk Migration Association of North America <jane...>
> Date: January 9, 2021 at 5:40:38 PM EST
> To: Michael Sefton <MSEFT...>
> Subject: NEW DATE! January Lunch & Learn: Tolima Raptor Count
> Reply-To: <us4-d5a0dcebae-c5015f6152...>
> 
>
> So as not to conflict with the presidential inauguration our January program
> has been moved to
> Thursday, January 21, at 12 pm ET.
>
>
>
> Join us Thursday, January 21, at 12 pm ET, live from Colombia!
>
> HMANA presents its first international Lunch & Learn program, coming to you live from Colombia! Featuring Esther Viviana Vallejo Santamari, the program focuses on the recent establishment of the Tolima Raptor Count, located near the city of Ibagué. Esther will speak briefly about the launch of the site, information from autumn 2020 counts, and their plans for spring 2021.
>
> This session is FREE and will be available via Zoom or Facebook LIVE.
>
> Register for Zoom HERE
>
> To view on Facebook, visit facebook.com/hawkmigration/live
>
> See you soon and happy new year!
>
> Support our 2021 Programming!
>
>
>
>
> Copyright © 2021 Hawk Migration Assoc North America, All rights reserved.
> You are receiving this email because you opted in via our website or email sign-up list.
>
> Our mailing address is:
> Hawk Migration Assoc North America
> 28916 Millbrook Rd
> Farmington Hills, Michigan 48334
>
> Add us to your address book
>
>
> Want to change how you receive these emails?
> You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list.
>
>

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Date: 1/12/21 11:56 am
From: Penny <dorfdoom...>
Subject: [birders] Lake St. Clair
3 adult bald eagles today, 3 female common mergansers and 3 beautiful male mergansers. Males look to be in breeding plumage, very bright white. The usual buffleheads and only a few mallards because of the ice.
Penny

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Date: 1/12/21 10:52 am
From: Eric Arnold <eba...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
I recall observing a quite dramatic display of the discharge from a bald
eagle which whitewashed a lot of foliage below it from its perch in a
fairly tall tree (probably a species of pine) at the far edge of a small
lake, I believe which was somewhere that I don't remember precisely but I
believe was in northeastern PA probably in a state park near I-84 somewhere
east of Scranton. I might even have a picture of that, but I'll need to do
some searching to find it if I do,

Definitely would not want to be too close to that!

Will look through my pictures...

Eric Arnold


On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 10:33 AM 'bill butler' via Birders <
<birders...> wrote:

> Allen's post matches the observations of our domestic ducks who quickly
> taught me to never, ever get caught out on the southern end of a northwards
> oriented female duck.
>
> Since I only saw the "firehose" phenomenon in females, it suggests to me
> that the muscles used are the same ones that facilitate the expulsion of
> eggs.
>
> Normally the ducks would excrete a small "plop" every hour or two and it
> rarely had a noticeable odor. When the females got broody, they would stay
> on the nest and retain fecal matter for most of the day or night before
> walking some distance from the nest to emitting an amazing quantity of
> noxious waste. Even after weeks of occupation during laying and incubation,
> the nests remained meticulously free of fecal matter.
>
> Cheers,
> Bill Butler
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
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> .
>

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Date: 1/12/21 10:51 am
From: Josh Haas <josh...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
Hahaha, Allen you are correct sir. I will forever be a 13yr old boy. I cannot resist getting in on this one. This is from the Tawas area a few years ago. And for the record, my 8yr old daughter loves this image. No loss of equality in our house. :)




-Josh Haas
269-420-9918
<josh...>
https://www.hawksonthewing.com
https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 13:33, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
> 
> Yes, this is an excellent photo, and I imagine satisfies the 13 year old inside all of us :-)
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:59 PM Ann Alvarez <annra.new...> wrote:
>> These posts have been interesting… And this photo is the perfect addition!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 12:23 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Amazing capture!
>>> Penny S.
>>>
>>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Anna <awmtngal...> wrote:
>>>> This is what April observed - but demonstrated by Iris, my local RTHA!!!
>>>> Anna
>>>> Hartland
>>>>
>>>> <fullsizeoutput_5d28.jpeg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> April,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>>>>
>>>>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<69AB34CF-64A7-4267-BB38-49036FBEF76F...>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJUZ%3D-8VybCj1fxCaCp4ZDyXEHh53RU0w%<2B3pK13kLLkdKQ...>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> ---
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>>> --
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>>> ---
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>
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Date: 1/12/21 10:39 am
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
Yes, this is an excellent photo, and I imagine satisfies the 13 year old
inside all of us :-)

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:59 PM Ann Alvarez <annra.new...> wrote:

> These posts have been interesting… And this photo is the perfect addition!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 12:23 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>
> 
> Amazing capture!
> Penny S.
>
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Anna <awmtngal...> wrote:
>
> This is what April observed - but demonstrated by Iris, my local RTHA!!!
> Anna
> Hartland
>
> <fullsizeoutput_5d28.jpeg>
>
>
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
> April,
>
> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the
> ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for
> getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation
> but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>
> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their
> fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they
> get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of
> the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>
>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected
>> screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream
>> of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special
>> muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What
>> evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an
>> anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this
>> topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>> www.glc.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<69AB34CF-64A7-4267-BB38-49036FBEF76F...>
>> .
>>
>
> --
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> www.glc.org
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> .
>
>
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> .
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Date: 1/12/21 10:39 am
From: Diana Kern <dlkaamitwin...>
Subject: [birders] Huge Flock of Robins Singing
I work on Jackson Road in Scio Township and I walked out to take some trash
to the dumpster and a flock of at least 40 Robins dropped out of the sky
and landed in the trees at the back of the parking lot. They were singing
and making all kinds of noise. What a unique experience.
*Have A Great Day,*
*Diana *

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Date: 1/12/21 10:30 am
From: James Buschmann <jbuschmann...>
Subject: [birders] Robins
There is a large flock of robins in the woods around my house south of Dexter, maybe 25 to 50. They are constantly moving, so impossible to count.

Sent from my iPad

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Date: 1/12/21 9:59 am
From: Ann Alvarez <annra.new...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
These posts have been interesting… And this photo is the perfect addition!

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 12:23 PM, Penny <dorfdoom...> wrote:
>
> 
> Amazing capture!
> Penny S.
>
>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Anna <awmtngal...> wrote:
>>>
>> This is what April observed - but demonstrated by Iris, my local RTHA!!!
>> Anna
>> Hartland
>>
>> <fullsizeoutput_5d28.jpeg>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>
>>> April,
>>>
>>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>>
>>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<69AB34CF-64A7-4267-BB38-49036FBEF76F...>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJUZ%3D-8VybCj1fxCaCp4ZDyXEHh53RU0w%<2B3pK13kLLkdKQ...>
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
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Date: 1/12/21 9:23 am
From: Penny <dorfdoom...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
Amazing capture!
Penny S.

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 10:30 AM, Anna <awmtngal...> wrote:
>
> This is what April observed - but demonstrated by Iris, my local RTHA!!!
> Anna
> Hartland
>
>
>
>
>> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>
>> April,
>>
>> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>>
>> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
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>>
>>
>> --
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Date: 1/12/21 7:33 am
From: 'bill butler' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
Allen's post matches the observations of our domestic ducks who quickly taught me to never, ever get caught out on the southern end of a northwards oriented female duck.

Since I only saw the "firehose" phenomenon in females, it suggests to me that the muscles used are the same ones that facilitate the expulsion of eggs.

Normally the ducks would excrete a small "plop" every hour or two and it rarely had a noticeable odor. When the females got broody, they would stay on the nest and retain fecal matter for most of the day or night before walking some distance from the nest to emitting an amazing quantity of noxious waste. Even after weeks of occupation during laying and incubation, the nests remained meticulously free of fecal matter.

Cheers,
Bill Butler

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Date: 1/12/21 7:30 am
From: Anna <awmtngal...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
This is what April observed - but demonstrated by Iris, my local RTHA!!!
Anna
Hartland




> On Jan 12, 2021, at 8:10 AM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
> April,
>
> I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.
>
> Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the nest so I imagine it is muscle development.
>
> On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> <mailto:<adc14...>> wrote:
> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
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> ---
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>
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Date: 1/12/21 5:11 am
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Hawk poop
April,

I don't know about the anatomy and musculature, but many birds have the
ability of projectile pooping. It has been described as an adaptation for
getting their feces well away from the nest, not only for nest sanitation
but also to protect from predators tracking the nest location.

Baby birds cannot do this when they hatch, so parent birds take their fecal
sacs (another unusual adaptation) well away from the nest. As they get
older, baby birds develop the ability to shoot poop over the edge of the
nest so I imagine it is muscle development.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 7:53 AM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:

> So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected
> screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream
> of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special
> muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What
> evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an
> anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this
> topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<69AB34CF-64A7-4267-BB38-49036FBEF76F...>
> .
>

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Date: 1/12/21 4:53 am
From: April Campbell <adc14...>
Subject: [birders] Hawk poop
So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poo? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!

Sent from my iPhone

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/12/21 4:43 am
From: April Campbell <adc14...>
Subject: [birders] Hawk Poop
So, I was observing my local female Coop perched on my newly erected screech owl box, when she lifted her tail and emitted a propulsive stream of poo ten feet across the yard! My question is this: are their special muscles in the cloaca that contract to allow such a power poop? What evolutionary purpose might exist for having a fire extinguisher for an anus? I checked a couple of anatomy books, but there no discussion on this topic I guess I should be glad she didn’t dribble all over the box!

Sent from my iPhone

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Date: 1/12/21 3:50 am
From: Phil Bugosh <peb729...>
Subject: [birders] Tonight, Tuesday January 12, 7:00 pm, OAS Zoom Meeting/Program. Everyone is invited
Black Terns. Tuesday, January 12, 2021 with a 7:00 PM start time. The site
will open at 6:30 PM. See the Zoom invitation at the end of this email for
details to log in. Join us for the Oakland Audubon Society's meeting and a
program titled "Black Terns" presented by Erin Rowan. Now listed as either
endangered, threatened or of “special concern” in all the Great Lakes
states, the Black Tern needs our help. We’ll hear from Erin Rowan,
Conservation Associate with Audubon Great Lakes about how Audubon is
leading monitoring and restoration of marsh birds and colonial waterbirds
such as the Black Tern and why these unique water-loving birds are so
important. Then we'll hear from Ava Landgraf, Research Coordinator with
Detroit Audubon, as we dive into collaborative research happening right
here in Michigan which is helping us better understand Black Terns and what
they need to thrive, including some conservation actions we can take to
help conserve them. Bring your questions (the advantage of attending the
live program). Everyone is invited to attend, you do not have to be a
member to participate.

Please check our Website (http://www.oaklandaudubon.org) and/or Facebook (
http://www.facebook.com/oaklandaudubon) for updates, news, events, past
programs and information about becoming an OAS member. Dues can now be paid
online.

Topic: OAS Program Meeting
Time: Jan 12, 2021 06:30 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86494840488?pwd=N2dMRjRQNXAyNzVKQUNmekJYd0J0Zz09
Meeting ID: 864 9484 0488
Passcode: 351373

One tap mobile
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Dial by your location
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Meeting ID: 864 9484 0488
Passcode: 351373
Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/kd344n4y3p

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Date: 1/11/21 3:48 pm
From: sdseeger <sdseeger...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Buffalo Soldiers: The Original Park Rangers | The Student Conservation Association
You may already be aware, but there's a Buffalo Soldiers Heritage Center in
Rouge Park, a couple miles upriver from UM Dearborn and the former Rouge
River Bird Observatory.

http://buffalosoldiersdetroit.org/

https://ebird.org/hotspots?hs=L2914899&yr=all&m=


On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 5:21 PM April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:

> Great story. I am a distant relative of Major Charles Young mentioned in
> this article.
>
>
> https://www.thesca.org/connect/blog/buffalo-soldiers-original-park-rangers
>
> Buffalo Soldiers: The Original Park Rangers [image: Tioga Pass, gateway
> to an SCA internship at Devils Postpile National Monument]
> A View into History at Devils Postpile by SCA Member Leslie Redman
>
> *Driving into Yosemite National Park via Tioga Pass offers a prelude to
> the magnificent scenic views of the park’s wilderness.*
>
> Before beginning my internship at Devils Postpile National Monument, I
> made a pilgrimage to Yosemite National Park to experience John Muir’s Range
> of Light firsthand. I hoped that I would be lucky enough to meet a specific
> Park Ranger, whose book I had previously read, and attend his interpretive
> program. Entering the boundaries of the park on the historic Tioga Pass, I
> became a bit overwhelmed by the significance of the surrounding wilderness.
> Having learned about parts of Yosemite’s history prior to driving out west,
> I was excited to navigate my route through the park using roads blazed by
> the legendary Buffalo Soldiers. Members of four segregated units of the US
> Army, these original protectors of the National Parks of the Sierra Nevada
> built many of the roads and trails that are still used by visitors, and
> enacted and enforced restrictions on behalf of the Department of the
> Interior. After receiving maps and information from the Yosemite entrance
> booth, I learned that the ranger whom I admired only led his program on
> Sunday evenings. I was a day too early. This minor disappointment wouldn’t
> detract from my tremendous enjoyment of the granite cliffs, pristine
> meadows, and vast wilderness, but it set me up for a huge surprise a few
> weeks into my internship.
>
> *A very kind visitor took this candid photo of my unexpected introduction
> to Shelton Johnson. As you may observe from the expression on my face (on
> the right), this was a really exciting moment.*
>
> At Devils Postpile National Monument one afternoon a few weeks later,
> while arriving at the ranger station after collecting trash from the
> surrounding grounds, I noticed a tall figure in Cavalry uniform exiting the
> building. I hesitantly approached, reluctant to appear conspicuous while
> attempting to determine his identity. As he walked past, I sheepishly
> mumbled “Are you Shelton Johnson?” an unnecessary question since I
> immediately recognized him. He confirmed my suspicion before I even began
> telling him about his inspiring role in my journey to working in
> conservation. Our Law Enforcement ranger, Nina Weisman, then answered some
> of his questions about filming within our monument the next day.
>
> *The Buffalo Soldiers were a hit among visitors who were surprised to see
> men in Cavalry uniform wielding rifles throughout Devils Postpile
> National Monument.*
>
> Knowing how important the previous day’s meeting had been to me, Nina
> requested my assistance when the crew arrived to film. “Crowd control and
> trash collecting” were my official duties that day, but the few hours I spent
> conversing with Shelton were well worth the effort. I got to converse with
> Shelton about topics ranging from altitude acclimatization, the presence of
> Buffalo Soldiers in our valley, his journey into the National Park Service,
> and how often visitors fall off the top of the Postpile. It was an
> experience I will not soon forget.
>
> *Nina Weisman made an exception to the “no climbing on the rocks” rule for
> the military reenactors, who filmed scenes atop and at the base of the
> Devils Postpile.*
>
> As an interpretive ranger at Yosemite National Park, Shelton has been
> performing The Forgotten Yosemite: A Buffalo Soldier Remembers each Sunday
> for over fifteen years. During this passionate one-man show, he portrays
> Elizy Bowman, a 9th Cavalry sergeant of Troop “K” stationed in Yosemite
> from the summer of 1903 to 1904. 400 African American US Army soldiers were
> assigned to protect the parks of California’s Sierra Nevada from the summer
> of 1899 through 1904. Shelton and his crew were in the process of filming
> an adaptation of this program for future generations of Yosemite’s visitors
> to ensure that this interpretive living history of the Buffalo Soldiers
> tale would remain a staple in Yosemite’s programming and lore for many
> more years.
>
> *This photo depicts members of the 24th Mounted Infantry’s patrol of
> Yosemite during the summer of 1899. Ranger Shelton Johnson discovered this
> photo, which inspired his work resurrecting the history of the Buffalo
> Soldiers, in the Yosemite Research Library. (courtesy of the Yosemite
> Research Library and nps.gov/yose <http://nps.gov/yose>)*
>
> It may seem surprising, but these original supervisors of California’s
> National Parks have been basically forgotten; an unknown portion of
> American history. Shortly after the end of the Spanish-American War in
> early 1899, members of the US Army’s 24th Mounted Infantry and 9th Cavalry
> units were sent on a fourteen day journey east from the Presidio in San
> Francisco to Yosemite, Sequoia, and General Grant (Kings Canyon) Parks led
> by the legendary Captain Charles Young (who later became the first Acting
> Superintendent of Sequoia/Kings Canyon National Parks). Devils Postpile
> National Monument, where I work as an Interpretation Intern, was once part
> of the southern boundary of Yosemite and housed soldiers at Agnew Meadows
> and Reds Meadows posts.
>
> *Shelton and his fellow Cavalrymen film a scene in which the soldiers take
> a break from their patrol to investigate the extraordinary columnar basalt
> of the Devils Postpile.*
>
> Aside from building roads and facilities such as Tioga Pass in Yosemite,
> and others that are now used as hiking trails throughout Sequoia, these
> soldiers fought fires, caught poachers and loggers exploiting park
> resources, and enforced penalties for those who violated park rules. One of
> the more notable solutions to illegal grazing of sheep and cattle involved
> soldiers displacing shepherds from their herds in the most inconvenient of
> ways. For example, if soldiers out on a patrol in a park found a man
> grazing animals, they would typically eject him from one corner of the
> park, while relocating his herd to another corner, roughly 125 miles from
> each other. Terrain throughout the parks was rugged, but the men of the
> 24th Infantry and 9th Cavalry units were able to truly appreciate the
> Sierra wilderness in which they worked.
>
> *This glorious High Sierra landscape, which I enjoyed during a recent hike
> to Young Lake at Tuolumne Meadows in Yosemite National Park, is as
> undisturbed and pristine as the park’s original protectors might have
> observed during their patrols.*
>
> Though they have been mostly overlooked throughout history, the Buffalo
> Soldiers who paved the way for modern Park Rangers have been resurrected in
> part by thoughtful historians and interpreters like Shelton Johnson. In
> addition to his weekly interpretive program, Shelton wrote Gloryland, a
> novel in which he elaborates on the life of Elizy Bowman prior to, and
> during, his tenure as a Cavalry sergeant in Yosemite National Park.
> Recently, Representative Jackie Speier of California has worked to enact
> the House of Representatives Bill 520: Buffalo Soldiers in the National
> Parks Study Act in order to authorize the Department of the Interior to
> conduct a study of alternatives for commemorating and interpreting the role
> of the Buffalo Soldiers in the early years of the National Park system. The
> US Postal Service has also commemorated Captain Charles Young and the
> service of the Buffalo Soldiers on a postage stamp, which we sell in our
> ranger station bookstore. It was an unexpected treat, and an absolute honor
> to speak at length with one of the most well-known and insightful
> interpretive National Park Rangers in the Service. Though many Americans
> are unaware of the rich history which he proliferates, I am completely
> intrigued and intend to continue spreading the word about the original
> official protectors of California’s incredible parks. Out of all of my
> experiences at work thus far, meeting Shelton Johnson is one of the
> greatest highlights.
>
> *This photo-op concluded one of the most memorable days of my internship
> at Devils Postpile National Monument.*
>
> -
> <https://assets.thesca.org/s3fs-public/imported/followme/inline/proof.jpg>
>
> <>
>
> --
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> .
>

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Date: 1/11/21 2:21 pm
From: April Campbell <adc14...>
Subject: [birders] Buffalo Soldiers: The Original Park Rangers | The Student Conservation Association
Great story. I am a distant relative of Major Charles Young mentioned in this article.
>
> https://www.thesca.org/connect/blog/buffalo-soldiers-original-park-rangers <https://www.thesca.org/connect/blog/buffalo-soldiers-original-park-rangers>
>
> Buffalo Soldiers: The Original Park Rangers
>
>
> A View into History at Devils Postpile by SCA Member Leslie Redman
>
> Driving into Yosemite National Park via Tioga Pass offers a prelude to the magnificent scenic views of the park’s wilderness.
>
> Before beginning my internship at Devils Postpile National Monument, I made a pilgrimage to Yosemite National Park to experience John Muir’s Range of Light firsthand. I hoped that I would be lucky enough to meet a specific Park Ranger, whose book I had previously read, and attend his interpretive program. Entering the boundaries of the park on the historic Tioga Pass, I became a bit overwhelmed by the significance of the surrounding wilderness. Having learned about parts of Yosemite’s history prior to driving out west, I was excited to navigate my route through the park using roads blazed by the legendary Buffalo Soldiers. Members of four segregated units of the US Army, these original protectors of the National Parks of the Sierra Nevada built many of the roads and trails that are still used by visitors, and enacted and enforced restrictions on behalf of the Department of the Interior. After receiving maps and information from the Yosemite entrance booth, I learned that the ranger whom I admired only led his program on Sunday evenings. I was a day too early. This minor disappointment wouldn’t detract from my tremendous enjoyment of the granite cliffs, pristine meadows, and vast wilderness, but it set me up for a huge surprise a few weeks into my internship.
>
> A very kind visitor took this candid photo of my unexpected introduction to Shelton Johnson. As you may observe from the expression on my face (on the right), this was a really exciting moment.
>
> At Devils Postpile National Monument one afternoon a few weeks later, while arriving at the ranger station after collecting trash from the surrounding grounds, I noticed a tall figure in Cavalry uniform exiting the building. I hesitantly approached, reluctant to appear conspicuous while attempting to determine his identity. As he walked past, I sheepishly mumbled “Are you Shelton Johnson?” an unnecessary question since I immediately recognized him. He confirmed my suspicion before I even began telling him about his inspiring role in my journey to working in conservation. Our Law Enforcement ranger, Nina Weisman, then answered some of his questions about filming within our monument the next day.
>
> The Buffalo Soldiers were a hit among visitors who were surprised to see men in Cavalry uniform wielding rifles throughout Devils Postpile National Monument.
>
> Knowing how important the previous day’s meeting had been to me, Nina requested my assistance when the crew arrived to film. “Crowd control and trash collecting” were my official duties that day, but the few hours I spent conversing with Shelton were well worth the effort. I got to converse with Shelton about topics ranging from altitude acclimatization, the presence of Buffalo Soldiers in our valley, his journey into the National Park Service, and how often visitors fall off the top of the Postpile. It was an experience I will not soon forget.
>
> Nina Weisman made an exception to the “no climbing on the rocks” rule for the military reenactors, who filmed scenes atop and at the base of the Devils Postpile.
>
> As an interpretive ranger at Yosemite National Park, Shelton has been performing The Forgotten Yosemite: A Buffalo Soldier Remembers each Sunday for over fifteen years. During this passionate one-man show, he portrays Elizy Bowman, a 9th Cavalry sergeant of Troop “K” stationed in Yosemite from the summer of 1903 to 1904. 400 African American US Army soldiers were assigned to protect the parks of California’s Sierra Nevada from the summer of 1899 through 1904. Shelton and his crew were in the process of filming an adaptation of this program for future generations of Yosemite’s visitors to ensure that this interpretive living history of the Buffalo Soldiers tale would remain a staple in Yosemite’s programming and lore for many more years.
>
> This photo depicts members of the 24th Mounted Infantry’s patrol of Yosemite during the summer of 1899. Ranger Shelton Johnson discovered this photo, which inspired his work resurrecting the history of the Buffalo Soldiers, in the Yosemite Research Library. (courtesy of the Yosemite Research Library and nps.gov/yose)
>
> It may seem surprising, but these original supervisors of California’s National Parks have been basically forgotten; an unknown portion of American history. Shortly after the end of the Spanish-American War in early 1899, members of the US Army’s 24th Mounted Infantry and 9th Cavalry units were sent on a fourteen day journey east from the Presidio in San Francisco to Yosemite, Sequoia, and General Grant (Kings Canyon) Parks led by the legendary Captain Charles Young (who later became the first Acting Superintendent of Sequoia/Kings Canyon National Parks). Devils Postpile National Monument, where I work as an Interpretation Intern, was once part of the southern boundary of Yosemite and housed soldiers at Agnew Meadows and Reds Meadows posts.
>
> Shelton and his fellow Cavalrymen film a scene in which the soldiers take a break from their patrol to investigate the extraordinary columnar basalt of the Devils Postpile.
>
> Aside from building roads and facilities such as Tioga Pass in Yosemite, and others that are now used as hiking trails throughout Sequoia, these soldiers fought fires, caught poachers and loggers exploiting park resources, and enforced penalties for those who violated park rules. One of the more notable solutions to illegal grazing of sheep and cattle involved soldiers displacing shepherds from their herds in the most inconvenient of ways. For example, if soldiers out on a patrol in a park found a man grazing animals, they would typically eject him from one corner of the park, while relocating his herd to another corner, roughly 125 miles from each other. Terrain throughout the parks was rugged, but the men of the 24th Infantry and 9th Cavalry units were able to truly appreciate the Sierra wilderness in which they worked.
>
> This glorious High Sierra landscape, which I enjoyed during a recent hike to Young Lake at Tuolumne Meadows in Yosemite National Park, is as undisturbed and pristine as the park’s original protectors might have observed during their patrols.
>
> Though they have been mostly overlooked throughout history, the Buffalo Soldiers who paved the way for modern Park Rangers have been resurrected in part by thoughtful historians and interpreters like Shelton Johnson. In addition to his weekly interpretive program, Shelton wrote Gloryland, a novel in which he elaborates on the life of Elizy Bowman prior to, and during, his tenure as a Cavalry sergeant in Yosemite National Park. Recently, Representative Jackie Speier of California has worked to enact the House of Representatives Bill 520: Buffalo Soldiers in the National Parks Study Act in order to authorize the Department of the Interior to conduct a study of alternatives for commemorating and interpreting the role of the Buffalo Soldiers in the early years of the National Park system. The US Postal Service has also commemorated Captain Charles Young and the service of the Buffalo Soldiers on a postage stamp, which we sell in our ranger station bookstore. It was an unexpected treat, and an absolute honor to speak at length with one of the most well-known and insightful interpretive National Park Rangers in the Service. Though many Americans are unaware of the rich history which he proliferates, I am completely intrigued and intend to continue spreading the word about the original official protectors of California’s incredible parks. Out of all of my experiences at work thus far, meeting Shelton Johnson is one of the greatest highlights.
>
>
>
> This photo-op concluded one of the most memorable days of my internship at Devils Postpile National Monument.
>
> <https://assets.thesca.org/s3fs-public/imported/followme/inline/proof.jpg>
> <>

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Date: 1/10/21 9:32 am
From: 'Denise' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Long eared owl
Here's a pic of the log eared owl at Kensington metropark a few weeks ago. Checked again yesterday and was unable to relocate.

Denise in Howell 

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Date: 1/10/21 3:43 am
From: Phil Bugosh <peb729...>
Subject: [birders] Oakland Audubon Society Zoom Meeting/Program Tuesday January 12, 7:00 pm. Everyone is invited
Black Terns. Tuesday, January 12, 2021 with a 7:00 PM start time. The site
will open at 6:30 PM. See the Zoom invitation at the end of this email for
details to log in. Join us for the Oakland Audubon Society's meeting and a
program titled "Black Terns" presented by Erin Rowan. Black Terns are
charismatic birds that breed in marshes of the Great Lakes and are
unfortunately becoming increasingly rare. Now listed as either endangered,
threatened or of “special concern” in all the Great Lakes states, the Black
Tern needs our help. We’ll hear from Erin Rowan, Conservation Associate
with Audubon Great Lakes about how Audubon is leading monitoring and
restoration of marsh birds and colonial waterbirds such as the Black Tern
and why these unique water-loving birds are so important. Then we'll hear
from Ava Landgraf, Research Coordinator with Detroit Audubon, as we dive
into collaborative research happening right here in Michigan which is
helping us better understand Black Terns and what they need to thrive,
including some conservation actions we can take to help conserve them.
Bring your questions (the advantage of attending the live program).
Everyone is invited to attend, you do not have to be a member to
participate.

Upcoming Programs:
Jan. 26 - Nick Haddad - The Last Butterflies
Feb. 9 - Allen Chartier - Peru
Mar. 9 - Pete Blank - Climate Change
Apr. 13 - Robert Petit - Hawks

Please check our Website (http://www.oaklandaudubon.org) and/or Facebook (
http://www.facebook.com/oaklandaudubon) for updates, news, events, past
programs and information about becoming an OAS member. Dues can now be paid
online.

Topic: OAS Program Meeting
Time: Jan 12, 2021 06:30 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86494840488?pwd=N2dMRjRQNXAyNzVKQUNmekJYd0J0Zz09
Meeting ID: 864 9484 0488
Passcode: 351373

One tap mobile
+13017158592,,86494840488#,,,,,,0#,,351373# US (Washington D.C)
+13126266799,,86494840488#,,,,,,0#,,351373# US (Chicago)
Dial by your location
+1 301 715 8592 US (Washington D.C)
+1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago)
+1 646 558 8656 US (New York)
+1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma)
+1 346 248 7799 US (Houston)
+1 669 900 9128 US (San Jose)
Meeting ID: 864 9484 0488
Passcode: 351373
Find your local number: https://us02web.zoom.us/u/kd344n4y3p

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Date: 1/9/21 4:09 pm
From: Dan Fox <dfoxmi...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
Two years ago there were the Barn Owls in northern Indiana at an Amish Farm. I got to see an owlet.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 9, 2021, at 11:10 AM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
> 
> The Amish birders and farmers in north-central Ohio have had a lot of luck encouraging breeding Barn Owls too.
>
> Allen T. Chartier
> Inkster, Michigan
> Email: <amazilia3...>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:44 AM Mark Bradtke <mabmrmc...> wrote:
>> Happy New Year, Birders:
>>
>> Recent interesting article here on how Ireland is turning round its decline in Barn Owls, thanks to Birdwatch Ireland, by installing nest boxes in appropriate locations.
>>
>> This story focuses on a programme in County Cork, one of the counties in the province of Munster - mentioned in the article - which stretches across the most southern third of the island of Ireland:
>>
>> https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0102/1187373-owl-population-rising/
>>
>>
>> Mary
>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>>>
>>> The former owners of the Conservancy Farm in Superior Township told me that Barn Owls used to nest in the barn at the farm. They weren't sure of the year when they last nested there.
>>>
>>> Jack Smiley
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:24 AM Susan Falcone <sfalcone...> wrote:
>>>> I growing up on Pontiac Trail in Ann Arbor I saw an occasional barn owl.
>>>>
>>>> The most "recent" one I have seen was in 1984--I was about halfway through a running race in Milan, and I found one that was a road-kill victim...was not there after the race when I went looking for it.
>>>>
>>>> Susan
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 7:45 PM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Allen,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your first-hand account. I had never personally seen the owls and I can't remember who told me about them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jack
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:40 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>>>> Jack,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I last saw that nesting pair of Barn Owls at Sterling State Park in 1981. It was in an old silo that was torn down soon after that. If I remember (lots of things have been reconfigured there) I think the location was somewhere across the park road from the current park headquarters buildings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Al Maley (now living in New Hampshire and Spain), installed a nesting box on a wooden pole in the marsh area that I think the birds may have used once or twice, but by 1982 or 1983 they were no longer being seen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michigan has always been at the northern edge of the Barn Owl's range, and it is sensitive to harsh, cold winters. Perhaps this is one of few species that might temporarily benefit from a warming climate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:32 PM Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>>>>>>> My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
>>>>>>> https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was subsequently torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether that report was accurate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jack Smiley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect Barn Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and wildlife.
>>>>>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<418910409.42652.1610148400605...>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJXQQVThsEpu_4kG0Oh4WXCuCisB4Kx_GPs66%<2B0HTUDKXQ...>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>> Susan Falcone
>>>> Falcone Studio/Studies from Nature
>>>> Ann Arbor MI
>>>> (734) 995-1681
>>>> <sfalcone...>
>>>> susan.falcone on Facebook
>>>> --------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PXYZ%2B1UtwL1ve9sukErtq_PqeQ27P3%<2BCJAMfyis23TOxQ...>
>>
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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Date: 1/9/21 12:35 pm
From: Chris Hensick <hensick...>
Subject: [birders] Request To Change My eMail Address
Hello, Birders People.



Please provide me with a modest assist.effectuate a change of email
addresses for me on the Listserv.Birders [I am, admittedly, technically
challenged in such matters]:



~ DELETE: < <hensick...> <mailto:<hensick...> >



~~ SUBSCRIBE ME @ NEW ADDRESS: < <chensick...>
<mailto:<chensick...> >



I really & truly appreciate your kind attention to this request, as I am
sadly technically challenged in such matters.



Chris Hensick



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Date: 1/9/21 10:21 am
From: April Campbell <adc14...>
Subject: [birders] T-shirt style
Hello,
Can you tell me where I can purchase this T-Shirt?
Patagonia’s logo is on the front.

Thanks

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Date: 1/9/21 8:10 am
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
The Amish birders and farmers in north-central Ohio have had a lot of luck
encouraging breeding Barn Owls too.

Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: <amazilia3...>
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 9:44 AM Mark Bradtke <mabmrmc...> wrote:

> Happy New Year, Birders:
>
> Recent interesting article here on how Ireland is turning round its
> decline in Barn Owls, thanks to Birdwatch Ireland, by installing nest boxes
> in appropriate locations.
>
> This story focuses on a programme in County Cork, one of the counties in
> the province of Munster - mentioned in the article - which stretches across
> the most southern third of the island of Ireland:
>
> https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0102/1187373-owl-population-rising/
>
>
> Mary
>
> On Jan 9, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>
> The former owners of the Conservancy Farm in Superior Township told me
> that Barn Owls used to nest in the barn at the farm. They weren't sure of
> the year when they last nested there.
>
> Jack Smiley
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:24 AM Susan Falcone <sfalcone...> wrote:
>
>> I growing up on Pontiac Trail in Ann Arbor I saw an occasional barn owl.
>>
>> The most "recent" one I have seen was in 1984--I was about halfway
>> through a running race in Milan, and I found one that was a road-kill
>> victim...was not there after the race when I went looking for it.
>>
>> Susan
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 7:45 PM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>>
>> Allen,
>>
>> Thanks for your first-hand account. I had never personally seen the owls
>> and I can't remember who told me about them.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:40 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jack,
>>>
>>> I last saw that nesting pair of Barn Owls at Sterling State Park in
>>> 1981. It was in an old silo that was torn down soon after that. If I
>>> remember (lots of things have been reconfigured there) I think the location
>>> was somewhere across the park road from the current park headquarters
>>> buildings.
>>>
>>> Al Maley (now living in New Hampshire and Spain), installed a nesting
>>> box on a wooden pole in the marsh area that I think the birds may have used
>>> once or twice, but by 1982 or 1983 they were no longer being seen.
>>>
>>> Michigan has always been at the northern edge of the Barn Owl's range,
>>> and it is sensitive to harsh, cold winters. Perhaps this is one of few
>>> species that might temporarily benefit from a warming climate.
>>>
>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:32 PM Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting
>>>> site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan
>>>> Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the
>>>> breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
>>>>
>>>> https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380
>>>>
>>>> I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was
>>>> subsequently torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether
>>>> that report was accurate.
>>>>
>>>> Jack Smiley
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect
>>>>> Barn Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known
>>>>> nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad
>>>>> that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and
>>>>> wildlife.
>>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<418910409.42652.1610148400605...>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>> www.glc.org
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJXQQVThsEpu_4kG0Oh4WXCuCisB4Kx_GPs66%<2B0HTUDKXQ...>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJXQQVThsEpu_4kG0Oh4WXCuCisB4Kx_GPs66%<2B0HTUDKXQ...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>> www.glc.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Birders" group.
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>> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> Susan Falcone
>> Falcone Studio/Studies from Nature
>> Ann Arbor MI
>> (734) 995-1681
>> <sfalcone...>
>> susan.falcone on Facebook
>> --------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PXYZ%2B1UtwL1ve9sukErtq_PqeQ27P3%<2BCJAMfyis23TOxQ...>
> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PXYZ%2B1UtwL1ve9sukErtq_PqeQ27P3%<2BCJAMfyis23TOxQ...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
>
>

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Date: 1/9/21 6:44 am
From: Mark Bradtke <mabmrmc...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
Happy New Year, Birders:

Recent interesting article here on how Ireland is turning round its decline in Barn Owls, thanks to Birdwatch Ireland, by installing nest boxes in appropriate locations.

This story focuses on a programme in County Cork, one of the counties in the province of Munster - mentioned in the article - which stretches across the most southern third of the island of Ireland:

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0102/1187373-owl-population-rising/ <https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2021/0102/1187373-owl-population-rising/>


Mary

> On Jan 9, 2021, at 9:20 AM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>
> The former owners of the Conservancy Farm in Superior Township told me that Barn Owls used to nest in the barn at the farm. They weren't sure of the year when they last nested there.
>
> Jack Smiley
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:24 AM Susan Falcone <sfalcone...> <mailto:<sfalcone...>> wrote:
> I growing up on Pontiac Trail in Ann Arbor I saw an occasional barn owl.
>
> The most "recent" one I have seen was in 1984--I was about halfway through a running race in Milan, and I found one that was a road-kill victim...was not there after the race when I went looking for it.
>
> Susan
>
>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 7:45 PM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> <mailto:<jackrsmiley...>> wrote:
>>
>> Allen,
>>
>> Thanks for your first-hand account. I had never personally seen the owls and I can't remember who told me about them.
>>
>> Jack
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:40 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...>> wrote:
>> Jack,
>>
>> I last saw that nesting pair of Barn Owls at Sterling State Park in 1981. It was in an old silo that was torn down soon after that. If I remember (lots of things have been reconfigured there) I think the location was somewhere across the park road from the current park headquarters buildings.
>>
>> Al Maley (now living in New Hampshire and Spain), installed a nesting box on a wooden pole in the marsh area that I think the birds may have used once or twice, but by 1982 or 1983 they were no longer being seen.
>>
>> Michigan has always been at the northern edge of the Barn Owl's range, and it is sensitive to harsh, cold winters. Perhaps this is one of few species that might temporarily benefit from a warming climate.
>>
>> Allen T. Chartier
>> Inkster, Michigan
>> Email: <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...>
>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/>
>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/ <http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:32 PM Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> <mailto:<jackrsmiley...>> wrote:
>> My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
>> https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380 <https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380>
>>
>> I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was subsequently torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether that report was accurate.
>>
>> Jack Smiley
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> <mailto:<pkbaize...>> wrote:
>>
>> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect Barn Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and wildlife.
>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org/>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders%<2Bunsubscribe...>.
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>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org/>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders+<unsubscribe...>.
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>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org/>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders+<unsubscribe...>.
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>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org/>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders+<unsubscribe...>.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Susan Falcone
> Falcone Studio/Studies from Nature
> Ann Arbor MI
> (734) 995-1681
> <sfalcone...> <mailto:<sfalcone...>
> susan.falcone on Facebook
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders+<unsubscribe...>.
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Date: 1/9/21 6:20 am
From: Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
The former owners of the Conservancy Farm in Superior Township told me that
Barn Owls used to nest in the barn at the farm. They weren't sure of the
year when they last nested there.

Jack Smiley

On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 8:24 AM Susan Falcone <sfalcone...> wrote:

> I growing up on Pontiac Trail in Ann Arbor I saw an occasional barn owl.
>
> The most "recent" one I have seen was in 1984--I was about halfway through
> a running race in Milan, and I found one that was a road-kill victim...was
> not there after the race when I went looking for it.
>
> Susan
>
> On Jan 8, 2021, at 7:45 PM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>
> Allen,
>
> Thanks for your first-hand account. I had never personally seen the owls
> and I can't remember who told me about them.
>
> Jack
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:40 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
>> Jack,
>>
>> I last saw that nesting pair of Barn Owls at Sterling State Park in 1981.
>> It was in an old silo that was torn down soon after that. If I remember
>> (lots of things have been reconfigured there) I think the location was
>> somewhere across the park road from the current park headquarters
>> buildings.
>>
>> Al Maley (now living in New Hampshire and Spain), installed a nesting box
>> on a wooden pole in the marsh area that I think the birds may have used
>> once or twice, but by 1982 or 1983 they were no longer being seen.
>>
>> Michigan has always been at the northern edge of the Barn Owl's range,
>> and it is sensitive to harsh, cold winters. Perhaps this is one of few
>> species that might temporarily benefit from a warming climate.
>>
>> Allen T. Chartier
>> Inkster, Michigan
>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:32 PM Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>>
>>> My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting
>>> site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan
>>> Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the
>>> breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
>>>
>>> https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380
>>>
>>> I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was subsequently
>>> torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether that report
>>> was accurate.
>>>
>>> Jack Smiley
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect
>>>> Barn Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known
>>>> nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad
>>>> that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and
>>>> wildlife.
>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>> www.glc.org
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<418910409.42652.1610148400605...>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>> www.glc.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJXQQVThsEpu_4kG0Oh4WXCuCisB4Kx_GPs66%<2B0HTUDKXQ...>
>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJXQQVThsEpu_4kG0Oh4WXCuCisB4Kx_GPs66%<2B0HTUDKXQ...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...>
> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> Susan Falcone
> Falcone Studio/Studies from Nature
> Ann Arbor MI
> (734) 995-1681
> <sfalcone...>
> susan.falcone on Facebook
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

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Date: 1/9/21 5:25 am
From: Susan Falcone <sfalcone...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
I growing up on Pontiac Trail in Ann Arbor I saw an occasional barn owl.

The most "recent" one I have seen was in 1984--I was about halfway through a running race in Milan, and I found one that was a road-kill victim...was not there after the race when I went looking for it.

Susan

> On Jan 8, 2021, at 7:45 PM, Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>
> Allen,
>
> Thanks for your first-hand account. I had never personally seen the owls and I can't remember who told me about them.
>
> Jack
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:40 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...>> wrote:
> Jack,
>
> I last saw that nesting pair of Barn Owls at Sterling State Park in 1981. It was in an old silo that was torn down soon after that. If I remember (lots of things have been reconfigured there) I think the location was somewhere across the park road from the current park headquarters buildings.
>
> Al Maley (now living in New Hampshire and Spain), installed a nesting box on a wooden pole in the marsh area that I think the birds may have used once or twice, but by 1982 or 1983 they were no longer being seen.
>
> Michigan has always been at the northern edge of the Barn Owl's range, and it is sensitive to harsh, cold winters. Perhaps this is one of few species that might temporarily benefit from a warming climate.
>
> Allen T. Chartier
> Inkster, Michigan
> Email: <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/>
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/ <http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:32 PM Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> <mailto:<jackrsmiley...>> wrote:
> My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
> https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380 <https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380>
>
> I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was subsequently torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether that report was accurate.
>
> Jack Smiley
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> <mailto:<pkbaize...>> wrote:
>
> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect Barn Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and wildlife.
> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org/>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders%<2Bunsubscribe...>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<418910409.42652.1610148400605...> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<418910409.42652.1610148400605...>.
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org/>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders+<unsubscribe...>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org <http://www.glc.org/>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
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>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...> <mailto:birders+<unsubscribe...>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAJpB0PWxmWYLZ9HXWOHAOgTyMg3a-rbY0gAfdr%2BZZRQ%2Bw72Z%<3Dw...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

--------------------------------------------
Susan Falcone
Falcone Studio/Studies from Nature
Ann Arbor MI
(734) 995-1681
<sfalcone...>
susan.falcone on Facebook
--------------------------------------------



--
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Date: 1/8/21 4:46 pm
From: Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
Allen,

Thanks for your first-hand account. I had never personally seen the owls
and I can't remember who told me about them.

Jack

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:40 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:

> Jack,
>
> I last saw that nesting pair of Barn Owls at Sterling State Park in 1981.
> It was in an old silo that was torn down soon after that. If I remember
> (lots of things have been reconfigured there) I think the location was
> somewhere across the park road from the current park headquarters
> buildings.
>
> Al Maley (now living in New Hampshire and Spain), installed a nesting box
> on a wooden pole in the marsh area that I think the birds may have used
> once or twice, but by 1982 or 1983 they were no longer being seen.
>
> Michigan has always been at the northern edge of the Barn Owl's range, and
> it is sensitive to harsh, cold winters. Perhaps this is one of few species
> that might temporarily benefit from a warming climate.
>
> Allen T. Chartier
> Inkster, Michigan
> Email: <amazilia3...>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:32 PM Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:
>
>> My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting
>> site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan
>> Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the
>> breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
>>
>> https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380
>>
>> I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was subsequently
>> torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether that report
>> was accurate.
>>
>> Jack Smiley
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect Barn
>>> Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known
>>> nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad
>>> that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and
>>> wildlife.
>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Birders" group.
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>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<418910409.42652.1610148400605...>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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>> www.glc.org
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>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
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Date: 1/8/21 4:40 pm
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
Jack,

I last saw that nesting pair of Barn Owls at Sterling State Park in 1981.
It was in an old silo that was torn down soon after that. If I remember
(lots of things have been reconfigured there) I think the location was
somewhere across the park road from the current park headquarters
buildings.

Al Maley (now living in New Hampshire and Spain), installed a nesting box
on a wooden pole in the marsh area that I think the birds may have used
once or twice, but by 1982 or 1983 they were no longer being seen.

Michigan has always been at the northern edge of the Barn Owl's range, and
it is sensitive to harsh, cold winters. Perhaps this is one of few species
that might temporarily benefit from a warming climate.

Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: <amazilia3...>
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 7:32 PM Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...> wrote:

> My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting
> site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan
> Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the
> breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
>
> https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380
>
> I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was subsequently
> torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether that report
> was accurate.
>
> Jack Smiley
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect Barn
>> Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known
>> nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad
>> that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and
>> wildlife.
>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>> www.glc.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<418910409.42652.1610148400605...>
>> .
>>
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> www.glc.org
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> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAJpB0PWGastEQuoLwNafq4NgM2CZhy4-yFfBaKGjePC5dg7Rmg...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

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Date: 1/8/21 4:32 pm
From: Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7
My recollection is that I heard that the last reported Barn Owl nesting
site in Michigan was in Monroe County. The account in the Michigan
Breeding Bird Atlas II appears to confirm that as it states that the
breeding record was in either 1982 or 1983.
https://naturecenter.org/Portals/0/MBBA/MBBAIIAccounts/A-E%20MBBAII%20Accounts/BNOW-2020.pdf?ver=2020-04-21-091704-380

I had heard that the nest site was in an old barn which was subsequently
torn down by the DNR, but I never was able to confirm whether that report
was accurate.

Jack Smiley

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 6:26 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:

>
> Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect Barn
> Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known
> nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad
> that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and
> wildlife.
> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
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> .
>

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Date: 1/8/21 3:26 pm
From: Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
Subject: [birders] Barn Owl story on channel 7

Just saw a story on tv a girl scout is raising money to build erect Barn Owl nest boxes in the Oxford, Michigan area. When was the last known nesting of a Barn Owl in Michigan? I think this is a great story, I'm glad that the young people of today are showing an interest in birds and wildlife.
Pat B. Howell, Michigan

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Date: 1/8/21 8:03 am
From: 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Great blue heron
Hi, Mag. I can’t tell if the heron is early or late. I have been seeing massive flocks of ducks flying north on the lake, though, and massive rafts for the last week or so. The heron didn’t seem to like having his feet on the cold, metal docks, though, and kept changing feet. I hope they are not going to be in trouble with this cold weather. The kingfisher we had finally left just 2 weeks ago.! Portions of Lake have only been freezing on and off every few days. I think this must’ve very confusing for the birds.
Penny

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 7, 2021, at 9:34 PM, Mag Tait <magtait1...> wrote:
>
> Do you think it’s early or late? Or stuck around all winter?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 7, 2021, at 5:41 PM, 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>
>
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Date: 1/7/21 6:34 pm
From: Mag Tait <magtait1...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Great blue heron
Do you think it’s early or late? Or stuck around all winter?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 7, 2021, at 5:41 PM, 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>

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Date: 1/7/21 2:41 pm
From: 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Great blue heron
Seen on dock at Lake St. Clair at dusk.
Penny

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Date: 1/7/21 7:50 am
From: Frances Wright <tarmacvista...>
Subject: Re: [birders] light pollution
I have Google Earth Pro on my computer. Look for the view of Leamington,
Ontario, CA and you can see the number of greenhouse rectangles surrounding
the little town. Leamington is just north of Pointe Pelee and Kingsville
is a bit to their west. And, this is a 2016 photograph so there might even
be more now. Fran.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 1:10 PM 'Sally K. Scheer' via Birders <
<birders...> wrote:

> I seem to have deleted the message I wanted to forward to the list.
> However, if you do a search for Canadian Light Pollution you’ll come up
> with an article in the Detroit News
>
>
>
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Date: 1/6/21 6:05 pm
From: April Campbell <adc14...>
Subject: [birders] Andy Jones, Ph.d
I just finished viewing a great Zoom talk featuring Dr. Andy Jones via the Kirtland’s Bird Club in Ohio. The talk was recorded and should be available on their website in a few days. Topics included: “Lights Out Cleveland” initiative currently in its third year. Several dozen buildings, including the Rockin’ Roll Hall of Fame have agreed to turn their lights off from midnight to dawn; migration patterns of the Red-headed woodpeckers geotagged in the Toledo area; genomic documentation of new hybrids including Field Sparrow x Clay Colored Sparrow, Cerulean x Northern Parula (Parulean), Magnolia x Redstart and Cerulean x Blue winged warbler (paper from Wilson Ornithological on the latest hybrid information is coming out next month); latest technology employed in studying migration includes radiotelemetry and tracking from the International
Space Station and a taxonomic update included spiltting the Mew Gull, lumping McKay’s Bunting into Snow Bunting and splitting the Band-rumped Storm Petrel into four different species. Whew!

Check it out

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Date: 1/6/21 1:31 pm
From: 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Bald Eagles on Lake St. Clair

The bald eagles that have been visiting here (Lake St. Clair) almost daily have been staying an awful long time; today’s Eagle here since 10 AM and just left, about 6 hours altogether, with no effort to fish or hunt ducks. There were two at the start of the day. The longest-staying one changed trees once because of a small boat going by. It’s an adult. Is this normal? Or is it possibly sick? They customarily stay at least a few hours.
Penny


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Date: 1/6/21 10:10 am
From: 'Sally K. Scheer' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] light pollution
I seem to have deleted the message I wanted to forward to the list. However,
if you do a search for Canadian Light Pollution you'll come up with an
article in the Detroit News



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Date: 1/6/21 9:57 am
From: 'Sally K. Scheer' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: RE: [birders] Not directly bird-related but close...
The Great Lakes mailing list sent good information about the source of this pollution and some actions being taken by local government in Canada. It’s massive GREENHOUSES in Canada and the locals there are also upset about the violation of the night sky and its effects on people and animals. I’ll try to forward the email but I’m pretty snowed under with work right now.



Sally Scheer

From: Allen Chartier [mailto:<amazilia3...>]
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2021 1:20 PM
To: Fred Kaluza
Cc: Birders UM
Subject: Re: [birders] Not directly bird-related but close...



Fred,



I wonder if this is what we were seeing early in the morning in late October at Lake St. Clair Metropark. I imagine that Leamington is too far away to be visible from the Day Sail area, but maybe there are some of these greenhouses on the southeastern shore of Lake St. Clair, perhaps west of the town of Chatham-Kent?



I have attached a photo here, taken an hour before first light so this is not a sunrise!



Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/

Image removed by sender.





On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:59 AM Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...> wrote:

Since much birding involves being outdoors and out in the weather and looking to the sky, I’m curious how many of you have noticed the light-pollution from Ontario. I know it’s seen in Cleveland and as far north as Port Huron but, is it visible from Ann Arbor or Lansing? Just wondering how much the water has to do with keeping the reflections bouncing between the surface and the sky. It’s pretty devastating to the “night sky” to an incredible number of people. See Story from John Hartig below.



https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2021/01/great-lakes-moment-leamington-greenhouses-lights/









From Fred’s IPhone

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Date: 1/5/21 3:38 pm
From: 'Penny Swanson' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Fwd: Bald eagles and Canvasbacks


Sent from my iPhone



Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Penny s." <z3ropen...>
> Date: January 5, 2021
>
> 2 adult bald eagles on Lake St. Clair again today at water’s edge of my Cove in a cottonwood tree. Some coming and going by both.
> Also on the Lake a little farther out were a couple thousand Canvasbacks that are there when I get up and I can’t tell when they leave, or if they leave, at night.
> Penny

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Date: 1/5/21 3:11 pm
From: Beth McCullough Adas <beth...>
Subject: [birders] Fwd: Collaborating Well at The Stewardship Network Conference 2021!
Register today for our upcoming conference. Fee is only $99!!


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*Reimagining Connections: The Stewardship Network Conference 2021*
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_/Registration is only $99! (student & elder rates are available)/_
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Beginning daily at 12pm Eastern - Presented virtually via H
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Date: 1/5/21 1:23 pm
From: Jack Smiley <jackrsmiley...>
Subject: [birders] Ford Farm, Superior Twp., 2-3,000 Canada Geese
I can't even attempt to count them, but my guess is that are at least
2-3,000 Canada Geese along Cherry Hill Road, east of Gotfredson. The geese
speckle the snow in about 1/4 square mile of farm fields. Several flocks
continued to fly in as I took a few photos.

Jack Smiley

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Date: 1/5/21 10:20 am
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Not directly bird-related but close...
Fred,

I wonder if this is what we were seeing early in the morning in late
October at Lake St. Clair Metropark. I imagine that Leamington is too far
away to be visible from the Day Sail area, but maybe there are some of
these greenhouses on the southeastern shore of Lake St. Clair, perhaps west
of the town of Chatham-Kent?

I have attached a photo here, taken an hour before first light so this is
not a sunrise!

Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: <amazilia3...>
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:59 AM Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...> wrote:

> Since much birding involves being outdoors and out in the weather and
> looking to the sky, I’m curious how many of you have noticed the
> light-pollution from Ontario. I know it’s seen in Cleveland and as far
> north as Port Huron but, is it visible from Ann Arbor or Lansing? Just
> wondering how much the water has to do with keeping the reflections
> bouncing between the surface and the sky. It’s pretty devastating to the
> “night sky” to an incredible number of people. See Story from John Hartig
> below.
>
>
> https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2021/01/great-lakes-moment-leamington-greenhouses-lights/
>
>
>
>
> From Fred’s IPhone
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> .
>

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Date: 1/5/21 10:10 am
From: Beverly Wolf <bev_wolf...>
Subject: [birders] robins
We had a flock of about 13 robins make a brief stop at our crabapple this morning. My husband spotted them picking a bit at them, but then they left within 5 minutes of him spotting them. The tree wasn't loaded to begin with and there were crabapples left behind. We haven't seen more than a few robins hanging around all year, so this was a surprise!

Bev Wolf
Waterford

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Date: 1/5/21 8:59 am
From: Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...>
Subject: [birders] Not directly bird-related but close...
Since much birding involves being outdoors and out in the weather and looking to the sky, I’m curious how many of you have noticed the light-pollution from Ontario. I know it’s seen in Cleveland and as far north as Port Huron but, is it visible from Ann Arbor or Lansing? Just wondering how much the water has to do with keeping the reflections bouncing between the surface and the sky. It’s pretty devastating to the “night sky” to an incredible number of people. See Story from John Hartig below.

https://www.greatlakesnow.org/2021/01/great-lakes-moment-leamington-greenhouses-lights/




From Fred’s IPhone

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Date: 1/5/21 8:27 am
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Large movement of Ducks on the Clinton River
I have seen this mass exodus of Canvasbacks (and sometimes Lesser Scaup) on
Lake St. Clair in many prior years...but it typically happens in late
October or November, which is a sign of how little the lakes farther north
have frozen so far this winter.

Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: <amazilia3...>
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



On Tue, Jan 5, 2021 at 11:11 AM Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...> wrote:

> Posted by Harrison Township resident Jill Walker yesterday. Many or most
> are believed to be Canvasbacks.
>
>
> https://d16kzk4negkp9h.cloudfront.net/1e/2e/17/1e2e175a54409e3af00fa58eecdbb2b4/transcoded-05CD76AD-CB00-44E0-B929-DBB44C399C5A.mp4?Expires=1609866342&Signature=bEhotl8l1LSSweotx-lYGJhoFV7B3OHOwEupLK9y2-fcP9LHtfBMGEMvtOJNyAa71N2O52BPTWZoxaApy60X5SPRnWKPaSfPBUfDUUN6wugihjFufQefh4Xf9rtuV236-Pj~HQBdymjNiV8hEbiUW~YQvnfwFJzc8QUblTIXFf8_&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIXBZNN3ZZBIBSIDQ
>
> From Fred’s IPhone
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> .
>

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Back to top
Date: 1/5/21 8:11 am
From: Fred Kaluza <fkaluza...>
Subject: [birders] Large movement of Ducks on the Clinton River
Posted by Harrison Township resident Jill Walker yesterday. Many or most are believed to be Canvasbacks.

https://d16kzk4negkp9h.cloudfront.net/1e/2e/17/1e2e175a54409e3af00fa58eecdbb2b4/transcoded-05CD76AD-CB00-44E0-B929-DBB44C399C5A.mp4?Expires=1609866342&Signature=bEhotl8l1LSSweotx-lYGJhoFV7B3OHOwEupLK9y2-fcP9LHtfBMGEMvtOJNyAa71N2O52BPTWZoxaApy60X5SPRnWKPaSfPBUfDUUN6wugihjFufQefh4Xf9rtuV236-Pj~HQBdymjNiV8hEbiUW~YQvnfwFJzc8QUblTIXFf8_&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIXBZNN3ZZBIBSIDQ

From Fred’s IPhone

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Date: 1/3/21 10:46 am
From: 'Edie Britt' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher


Wow.
What'd I miss?
Happy New Year to you all!
Good birding this year 2021.
Edie
On Thursday, December 31, 2020 Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> wrote:
#yiv3324063539 #yiv3324063539 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv3324063539 #yiv3324063539 p.yiv3324063539MsoNormal, #yiv3324063539 li.yiv3324063539MsoNormal, #yiv3324063539 div.yiv3324063539MsoNormal {margin:0in;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv3324063539 a:link, #yiv3324063539 span.yiv3324063539MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3324063539 span.yiv3324063539EmailStyle20 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv3324063539 .yiv3324063539MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv3324063539 div.yiv3324063539WordSection1 {}#yiv3324063539
Hear! Hear! to both Mary and Allen!  Happy New Year and Happy birding one and all.  My final words.

 

Bev

 

From: Mary Wise <auntyem...>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 6:57 PM
To: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Cc: birders <birders...>
Subject: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher

 

Enough already!

 

As I said several messages ago in this thread, I feel that the original post was within the boundaries of acceptable posts as it related to birders and being inclusive to new birders.  Since I am the administrator who reluctantly agreed to herd this particular group of cats, I get the final say.  If you really can't deal with hitting the delete key, then unsubscribe.  

 

Mary

 

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:01 AM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:


Dr. Lanham's article was hopeful, uplifting, and poetic for sure. It might give some a sense that everything is OK, and that there isn't anything more to do. But very clearly, his 9 points is a "to do" list. I hope that during 2021 we all think about what we can do to increase the number and diversity of birders in Michigan. Volunteers I've had help me with bird banding over the years have been (and are) African American, LatinX, East Asian, South Asian, LGBTQ, men, women, young, and old. Some are seasoned birders, but more importantly many are budding birders. The diversity, interest, and opportunity is out there. Trust me.

 

Watching a flock of a single species, like Snow Buntings, wheel and swirl over a wintery field is certainly inspiring. But equally inspiring, if you have had the privileges that I have, is to watch diverse mixed species feeding flocks in the Andes, Amazon, or Himalayas, with 30-50 or more colorful species, often thanks to local birding guides of color. I think we all understand the excitement of diversity. Let's not ignore the human aspect. Maybe do as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (and others) suggest: Make a friend today who does not look like you today.

 

Whatever you do in 2021, I wish you the greatest success. And it seems that an old adage applies as always: Lead, Follow, or get out of the way. I plan to do a little bit of each, as appropriate.

 

Happy New Year everyone!

 



Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



 

 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:55 PM Linda Berauer <lberauer...> wrote:


Thank you Timothy, Juliet, Allen, and Marta, for your courage in speaking up, and all the others who expressed appreciation for April's link to Drew's article. The mission of "culturing and maintaining interest in birding in Michigan" is a human endeavor. To pretend that it's only about the birds and not the humans who care about them and their habitat, watch them, and count them is disingenuous. If we truly care about birds and the habitat they need to survive, we need as many humans as possible to join us in that endeavor and feel welcome and comfortable doing so. 

 

I truly hope this list isn't only about numbers and locations and checklists. If it is, the numbers will continue to dwindle and the checklists will soon be barren.

 

I respect the right of Patrick and those who agree with him to express their opinion. I simply hope that they will take out their "feel" guide and consider the opinions of Drew and those who expressed appreciation of his article. Are you really advocating to sticking to "just birds," or is there something else that bothers you about Drew's article? I read factual statements in his piece, expressed in the language of poetry. What is it about those facts that bothers you? The fact that he points to the fact that many birds are named after slave owners or white supremacists? And that some people would prefer more descriptive names? Why is that so bothersome that discussion of it should be squashed? 

 

We should probably end this discussion, but I hope that everyone who participated or watched on the sidelines will think deeply about the issues raised. Those issues are important to us as humans, and yes, to the birds, whose continued existence is unfortunately at the mercy of the decisions we humans make now - the decisions we make as to how we live to together as a society, how we use our resources, and whether we preserve the land. Driving to locations to catch a glimpse of the rare species, counting them, checking them off on our lists is not going to save them. We need every human possible to care about them. And posts that promote that is absolutely what we should be about.

 

Linda Berauer

Ann Arbor





On Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:49 PM Timothy McKay <tamckay...> wrote:


I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with Juliet’s interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If you can’t see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both birds AND people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to read his book “The Home Place”.

 

Happy New Year to you all,

Tim 

 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...> wrote:


The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author, Drew Lanham,  is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the piece is about birding.  To object to a discussion of ways to make all birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who don't feel welcomed in our birding community.

Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy on this list.

I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously.  To deny that race in birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are a racist group and that we like it that way.  We don't like it that way.

Juliet Berger

Washtenaw Audubon

 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:


Marta,

 

Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:

 

BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.

 

And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be posted, and allowed it to be discussed.

 

Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly delusional.  It also fails to put forth a single argument about an important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.

 

Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color, or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.

 

Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



 

 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:


The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding, are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience?  What line did it cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”, or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary? 

Marta

Sent from my iPhone






On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:





When we send an email to this list server, we send it to <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately, I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended to be… a place to share our passion of birding!  Patrick J.

 

 

 

On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...> wrote:

 

 

Well said Bill!

Sent from my iPhone






On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...> wrote:





This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that being said, my vote is to stick with birds. 

 

William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan

 

 

On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <ibblazin...> wrote:

 

 

Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the occasional butterfly?

Anita

 

 

From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
Cc: Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher

 

Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion.  Just because you may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion.  They wondered if this was the right place for the article.  The list owner decided it was.  Seems done to me.  

 

-Josh Haas

269-420-9918

<josh...>

https://www.hawksonthewing.com

https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing

 


On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:





I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and recent message from PB.  

 

Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support each of your sentiments.

Lisa

 

 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> wrote:


I loved the post and appreciated it.  The introduction to Orion Magazine was an added bonus.

Marta

 

 

 

 

On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:

 

Allen,

 

Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could. 

 

JC

Sent from my iPhone

 


On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:





I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.

 

The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this  post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be objectionable about that?

 

The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders, explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by attempts to shut these important conversations down.

 

Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



 

 

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:



does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
Pat B. Howell, Michigan

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...> wrote:

 

 

Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks, April.
Juliet Berger

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>
> Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>
> https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Principal Investigator of the ECoach, and SEISMIC projects

Associate Dean for Undergraduate Education, College of Literature, Science, and the Arts

 

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Back to top
Date: 1/1/21 12:23 pm
From: 'Bill Rapai' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: [birders] Kirtland's Warbler Alliance seeks your suggestions
Birders:
As many of you know, I am deeply involved in Kirtland's Warbler conservation efforts.
I'm working with a committee to plan the 2021 Kirtland's Warbler census. It's a long story, and I'm happy to explain off list, but what I need from you right now is suggestions for your favorite online bird identification quizzes. Please respond to me off list at <BRapai...>
Thank you and best wishes for a healthy, prosperous and very birdy 2021.
Bill Rapai
"Adopt the pace of nature: her secret is patience." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson



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Back to top
Date: 12/31/20 4:32 pm
From: Mary Wise <auntyem...>
Subject: Re: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
No. When I say end thread, I mean end thread, not that each person gets to
throw in one last shot.

PLEASE. STOP. NOW.

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 7:13 PM Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...> wrote:

> Hear! Hear! to both Mary and Allen! Happy New Year and Happy birding one
> and all. My final words.
>
>
>
> Bev
>
>
>
> *From:* Mary Wise <auntyem...>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2020 6:57 PM
> *To:* Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
> *Cc:* birders <birders...>
> *Subject:* ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for
> the Woke Birdwatcher
>
>
>
> Enough already!
>
>
>
> As I said several messages ago in this thread, I feel that the original
> post was within the boundaries of acceptable posts as it related to birders
> and being inclusive to new birders. Since I am the administrator who
> reluctantly agreed to herd this particular group of cats, I get the final
> say. If you really can't deal with hitting the delete key, then
> unsubscribe.
>
>
>
> Mary
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:01 AM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
> wrote:
>
> Dr. Lanham's article was hopeful, uplifting, and poetic for sure. It might
> give some a sense that everything is OK, and that there isn't anything more
> to do. But very clearly, his 9 points is a "to do" list. I hope that during
> 2021 we all think about what we can do to increase the number and diversity
> of birders in Michigan. Volunteers I've had help me with bird banding over
> the years have been (and are) African American, LatinX, East Asian, South
> Asian, LGBTQ, men, women, young, and old. Some are seasoned birders, but
> more importantly many are budding birders. The diversity, interest, and
> opportunity is out there. Trust me.
>
>
>
> Watching a flock of a single species, like Snow Buntings, wheel and swirl
> over a wintery field is certainly inspiring. But equally inspiring, if you
> have had the privileges that I have, is to watch diverse mixed species
> feeding flocks in the Andes, Amazon, or Himalayas, with 30-50 or more
> colorful species, often thanks to local birding guides of color. I think we
> all understand the excitement of diversity. Let's not ignore the human
> aspect. Maybe do as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (and others) suggest: Make a friend
> today who does not look like you today.
>
>
>
> Whatever you do in 2021, I wish you the greatest success. And it seems
> that an old adage applies as always: Lead, Follow, or get out of the way. I
> plan to do a little bit of each, as appropriate.
>
>
>
> Happy New Year everyone!
>
>
>
> Allen T. Chartier
>
> Inkster, Michigan
>
> Email: <amazilia3...>
>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:55 PM Linda Berauer <lberauer...> wrote:
>
> Thank you Timothy, Juliet, Allen, and Marta, for your courage in speaking
> up, and all the others who expressed appreciation for April's link to
> Drew's article. The mission of "culturing and maintaining interest in
> birding in Michigan" is a human endeavor. To pretend that it's only about
> the birds and not the humans who care about them and their habitat, watch
> them, and count them is disingenuous. If we truly care about birds and the
> habitat they need to survive, we need as many humans as possible to join us
> in that endeavor and feel welcome and comfortable doing so.
>
>
>
> I truly hope this list isn't only about numbers and locations and
> checklists. If it is, the numbers will continue to dwindle and the
> checklists will soon be barren.
>
>
>
> I respect the right of Patrick and those who agree with him to express
> their opinion. I simply hope that they will take out their "feel" guide and
> consider the opinions of Drew and those who expressed appreciation of his
> article. Are you really advocating to sticking to "just birds," or is there
> something else that bothers you about Drew's article? I read factual
> statements in his piece, expressed in the language of poetry. What is it
> about those facts that bothers you? The fact that he points to the fact
> that many birds are named after slave owners or white supremacists? And
> that some people would prefer more descriptive names? Why is that so
> bothersome that discussion of it should be squashed?
>
>
>
> We should probably end this discussion, but I hope that everyone who
> participated or watched on the sidelines will think deeply about the issues
> raised. Those issues are important to us as humans, and yes, to the birds,
> whose continued existence is unfortunately at the mercy of the decisions we
> humans make now - the decisions we make as to how we live to together as a
> society, how we use our resources, and whether we preserve the land.
> Driving to locations to catch a glimpse of the rare species, counting them,
> checking them off on our lists is not going to save them. We need every
> human possible to care about them. And posts that promote that is
> absolutely what we should be about.
>
>
>
> Linda Berauer
>
> Ann Arbor
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:49 PM Timothy McKay <tamckay...> wrote:
>
> I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with Juliet’s
> interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If you can’t
> see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both birds AND
> people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to read his
> book “The Home Place”.
>
>
>
> Happy New Year to you all,
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
> wrote:
>
> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding
> culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author,
> Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the
> piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all
> birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who
> don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
>
> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to
> discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more
> important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy
> on this list.
>
> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that
> all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in
> birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are
> a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
>
> Juliet Berger
>
> Washtenaw Audubon
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
> wrote:
>
> Marta,
>
>
>
> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I
> share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
> BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>
>
>
> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It
> contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest
> in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.
>
>
>
> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
> posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>
>
>
> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
> delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
> important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
> maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
> to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
> alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>
>
>
> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color,
> or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me
> that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list
> discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking
> and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
> counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>
>
>
> Allen T. Chartier
>
> Inkster, Michigan
>
> Email: <amazilia3...>
>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>
> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a
> birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>
> Marta
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via
> Birders <birders...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Well said Bill!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
> <birders...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case
> bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other
> subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.)
> in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>
>
>
> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
> occasional butterfly?
>
> Anita
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>;
> Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
>
>
>
> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no
> differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may
> not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They
> wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>
>
>
> *-Josh Haas*
>
> 269-420-9918
>
> <josh...>
>
> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>
> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and
> recent message from PB.
>
>
>
> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support
> each of your sentiments.
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
> <birders...> wrote:
>
> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine
> was an added bonus.
>
> Marta
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Allen,
>
>
>
> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>
>
>
> JC
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has
> never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may
> not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries
> are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>
>
>
> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or
> not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
> objectionable about that?
>
>
>
> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>
>
>
> Allen T. Chartier
>
> Inkster, Michigan
>
> Email: <amazilia3...>
>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
> wrote:
>
>
> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's
> personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
> April.
> Juliet Berger
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
> >
> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
> >
> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > --
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>
>
>
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> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAFoKnJUxO_LmeuKiCoZ_4OJFhoT7dHRKWL2TCv4dbpQoqyuf7A...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
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> .
>
> --
>
> *Timothy McKay*: University of Michigan
>
> Arthur F. Thurnau Professor of Physics <http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics>,
> Astronomy <http://www.astro.lsa.umich.edu/>, and Education
> <http://soe.umich.edu>
>
> Principal Investigator of the ECoach
> <http://digitaleducation.umich.edu/dei/e-coach/>, and SEISMIC
> <https://sites.google.com/umich.edu/seismic/home> projects
>
> Associate Dean for Undergraduate Education
> <https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/faculty-staff/undergraduate-education.html>, College
> of Literature, Science, and the Arts <https://lsa.umich.edu/>
>
>
>
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Back to top
Date: 12/31/20 4:13 pm
From: Beverly Wolf <Bev_Wolf...>
Subject: RE: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
Hear! Hear! to both Mary and Allen! Happy New Year and Happy birding one and all. My final words.



Bev



From: Mary Wise <auntyem...>
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 6:57 PM
To: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Cc: birders <birders...>
Subject: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher



Enough already!



As I said several messages ago in this thread, I feel that the original post was within the boundaries of acceptable posts as it related to birders and being inclusive to new birders. Since I am the administrator who reluctantly agreed to herd this particular group of cats, I get the final say. If you really can't deal with hitting the delete key, then unsubscribe.



Mary



On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:01 AM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...> > wrote:

Dr. Lanham's article was hopeful, uplifting, and poetic for sure. It might give some a sense that everything is OK, and that there isn't anything more to do. But very clearly, his 9 points is a "to do" list. I hope that during 2021 we all think about what we can do to increase the number and diversity of birders in Michigan. Volunteers I've had help me with bird banding over the years have been (and are) African American, LatinX, East Asian, South Asian, LGBTQ, men, women, young, and old. Some are seasoned birders, but more importantly many are budding birders. The diversity, interest, and opportunity is out there. Trust me.



Watching a flock of a single species, like Snow Buntings, wheel and swirl over a wintery field is certainly inspiring. But equally inspiring, if you have had the privileges that I have, is to watch diverse mixed species feeding flocks in the Andes, Amazon, or Himalayas, with 30-50 or more colorful species, often thanks to local birding guides of color. I think we all understand the excitement of diversity. Let's not ignore the human aspect. Maybe do as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (and others) suggest: Make a friend today who does not look like you today.



Whatever you do in 2021, I wish you the greatest success. And it seems that an old adage applies as always: Lead, Follow, or get out of the way. I plan to do a little bit of each, as appropriate.



Happy New Year everyone!





Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/

<https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1C2Ec3cR38dHwggKJ3JC0asbZaWa3-Ejd&export=download>





On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:55 PM Linda Berauer <lberauer...> <mailto:<lberauer...> > wrote:

Thank you Timothy, Juliet, Allen, and Marta, for your courage in speaking up, and all the others who expressed appreciation for April's link to Drew's article. The mission of "culturing and maintaining interest in birding in Michigan" is a human endeavor. To pretend that it's only about the birds and not the humans who care about them and their habitat, watch them, and count them is disingenuous. If we truly care about birds and the habitat they need to survive, we need as many humans as possible to join us in that endeavor and feel welcome and comfortable doing so.



I truly hope this list isn't only about numbers and locations and checklists. If it is, the numbers will continue to dwindle and the checklists will soon be barren.



I respect the right of Patrick and those who agree with him to express their opinion. I simply hope that they will take out their "feel" guide and consider the opinions of Drew and those who expressed appreciation of his article. Are you really advocating to sticking to "just birds," or is there something else that bothers you about Drew's article? I read factual statements in his piece, expressed in the language of poetry. What is it about those facts that bothers you? The fact that he points to the fact that many birds are named after slave owners or white supremacists? And that some people would prefer more descriptive names? Why is that so bothersome that discussion of it should be squashed?



We should probably end this discussion, but I hope that everyone who participated or watched on the sidelines will think deeply about the issues raised. Those issues are important to us as humans, and yes, to the birds, whose continued existence is unfortunately at the mercy of the decisions we humans make now - the decisions we make as to how we live to together as a society, how we use our resources, and whether we preserve the land. Driving to locations to catch a glimpse of the rare species, counting them, checking them off on our lists is not going to save them. We need every human possible to care about them. And posts that promote that is absolutely what we should be about.



Linda Berauer

Ann Arbor





On Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:49 PM Timothy McKay <tamckay...> <mailto:<tamckay...> > wrote:

I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with Juliet’s interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If you can’t see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both birds AND people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to read his book “The Home Place”.



Happy New Year to you all,

Tim



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...> <mailto:<juliet.berger...> > wrote:

The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author, Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who don't feel welcomed in our birding community.

Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy on this list.

I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.

Juliet Berger

Washtenaw Audubon



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...> > wrote:

Marta,



Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:



BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.



And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be posted, and allowed it to be discussed.



Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.



Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color, or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.



Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/

<https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1C2Ec3cR38dHwggKJ3JC0asbZaWa3-Ejd&export=download>





On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> <mailto:<mamanildi...> > wrote:

The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding, are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”, or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?

Marta

Sent from my iPhone





On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> <mailto:<p40warhawk2002...> > wrote:



When we send an email to this list server, we send it to <birders...> <mailto:<birders...> , not <My_Agenda...> <mailto:<My_Agenda...> ! I agree with Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately, I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.







On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...> <mailto:<birders...> > wrote:





Well said Bill!

Sent from my iPhone





On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...> <mailto:<birders...> > wrote:



This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that being said, my vote is to stick with birds.



William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan





On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <mailto:<ibblazin...> <ibblazin...> <mailto:<ibblazin...> > wrote:





Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the occasional butterfly?

Anita





From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...> <mailto:<joshuahaas...> >
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> <mailto:<lisalk...> >
Cc: Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> <mailto:<mamanildi...> >; Jchordash <jchordash...> <mailto:<jchordash...> >; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...> >; birders <birders...> <mailto:<birders...> >
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher



Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner decided it was. Seems done to me.



-Josh Haas

269-420-9918

<josh...> <mailto:<josh...>

https://www.hawksonthewing.com

https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing



On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> <mailto:<lisalk...> > wrote:



I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and recent message from PB.



Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support each of your sentiments.

Lisa





On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> <mailto:<birders...> > wrote:

I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine was an added bonus.

Marta









On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> <mailto:<jchordash...> > wrote:



Allen,



Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.



JC

Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...> > wrote:



I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.



The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be objectionable about that?



The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders, explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by attempts to shut these important conversations down.



Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...> <mailto:<amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/

<https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1C2Ec3cR38dHwggKJ3JC0asbZaWa3-Ejd&export=download>





On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> <mailto:<pkbaize...> > wrote:


does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
Pat B. Howell, Michigan

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...> <mailto:<juliet.berger...> > wrote:





Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks, April.
Juliet Berger

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> <mailto:<adc14...> > wrote:
>
> Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>
> https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Back to top
Date: 12/31/20 3:57 pm
From: Mary Wise <auntyem...>
Subject: ADMIN: End thread!! Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
Enough already!

As I said several messages ago in this thread, I feel that the original
post was within the boundaries of acceptable posts as it related to birders
and being inclusive to new birders. Since I am the administrator who
reluctantly agreed to herd this particular group of cats, I get the final
say. If you really can't deal with hitting the delete key, then
unsubscribe.

Mary

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 10:01 AM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:

> Dr. Lanham's article was hopeful, uplifting, and poetic for sure. It might
> give some a sense that everything is OK, and that there isn't anything more
> to do. But very clearly, his 9 points is a "to do" list. I hope that during
> 2021 we all think about what we can do to increase the number and diversity
> of birders in Michigan. Volunteers I've had help me with bird banding over
> the years have been (and are) African American, LatinX, East Asian, South
> Asian, LGBTQ, men, women, young, and old. Some are seasoned birders, but
> more importantly many are budding birders. The diversity, interest, and
> opportunity is out there. Trust me.
>
> Watching a flock of a single species, like Snow Buntings, wheel and swirl
> over a wintery field is certainly inspiring. But equally inspiring, if you
> have had the privileges that I have, is to watch diverse mixed species
> feeding flocks in the Andes, Amazon, or Himalayas, with 30-50 or more
> colorful species, often thanks to local birding guides of color. I think we
> all understand the excitement of diversity. Let's not ignore the human
> aspect. Maybe do as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (and others) suggest: Make a friend
> today who does not look like you today.
>
> Whatever you do in 2021, I wish you the greatest success. And it seems
> that an old adage applies as always: Lead, Follow, or get out of the way. I
> plan to do a little bit of each, as appropriate.
>
> Happy New Year everyone!
>
> [image: image.png]
> Allen T. Chartier
> Inkster, Michigan
> Email: <amazilia3...>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:55 PM Linda Berauer <lberauer...> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Timothy, Juliet, Allen, and Marta, for your courage in speaking
>> up, and all the others who expressed appreciation for April's link to
>> Drew's article. The mission of "culturing and maintaining interest in
>> birding in Michigan" is a human endeavor. To pretend that it's only about
>> the birds and not the humans who care about them and their habitat, watch
>> them, and count them is disingenuous. If we truly care about birds and the
>> habitat they need to survive, we need as many humans as possible to join us
>> in that endeavor and feel welcome and comfortable doing so.
>>
>> I truly hope this list isn't only about numbers and locations and
>> checklists. If it is, the numbers will continue to dwindle and the
>> checklists will soon be barren.
>>
>> I respect the right of Patrick and those who agree with him to express
>> their opinion. I simply hope that they will take out their "feel" guide and
>> consider the opinions of Drew and those who expressed appreciation of his
>> article. Are you really advocating to sticking to "just birds," or is there
>> something else that bothers you about Drew's article? I read factual
>> statements in his piece, expressed in the language of poetry. What is it
>> about those facts that bothers you? The fact that he points to the fact
>> that many birds are named after slave owners or white supremacists? And
>> that some people would prefer more descriptive names? Why is that so
>> bothersome that discussion of it should be squashed?
>>
>> We should probably end this discussion, but I hope that everyone who
>> participated or watched on the sidelines will think deeply about the issues
>> raised. Those issues are important to us as humans, and yes, to the birds,
>> whose continued existence is unfortunately at the mercy of the decisions we
>> humans make now - the decisions we make as to how we live to together as a
>> society, how we use our resources, and whether we preserve the land.
>> Driving to locations to catch a glimpse of the rare species, counting them,
>> checking them off on our lists is not going to save them. We need every
>> human possible to care about them. And posts that promote that is
>> absolutely what we should be about.
>>
>> Linda Berauer
>> Ann Arbor
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:49 PM Timothy McKay <tamckay...> wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with
>>> Juliet’s interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If
>>> you can’t see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both
>>> birds AND people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to
>>> read his book “The Home Place”.
>>>
>>> Happy New Year to you all,
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding
>>>> culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author,
>>>> Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the
>>>> piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all
>>>> birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who
>>>> don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
>>>> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to
>>>> discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more
>>>> important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy
>>>> on this list.
>>>> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice
>>>> that all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race
>>>> in birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we
>>>> are a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
>>>> Juliet Berger
>>>> Washtenaw Audubon
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Marta,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today.
>>>>> I share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
>>>>> BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>>>>>
>>>>> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan.
>>>>> It contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining
>>>>> interest in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural
>>>>> wonders.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
>>>>> posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
>>>>> delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
>>>>> important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
>>>>> maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
>>>>> to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
>>>>> alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of
>>>>> color, or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses
>>>>> me that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list
>>>>> discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking
>>>>> and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
>>>>> counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>>>>>
>>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by
>>>>>> a birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
>>>>>> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
>>>>>> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
>>>>>> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
>>>>>> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
>>>>>> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>>>>>> Marta
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
>>>>>> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
>>>>>> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
>>>>>> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
>>>>>> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
>>>>>> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
>>>>>> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
>>>>>> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
>>>>>> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
>>>>>> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
>>>>>> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON'
>>>>>> via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well said Bill!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
>>>>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this
>>>>>> case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any
>>>>>> other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc.
>>>>>> etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
>>>>>> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
>>>>>> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
>>>>>> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
>>>>>> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
>>>>>> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
>>>>>> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
>>>>>> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
>>>>>> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
>>>>>> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
>>>>>> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
>>>>>> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
>>>>>> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
>>>>>> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
>>>>>> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
>>>>>> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
>>>>>> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
>>>>>> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
>>>>>> occasional butterfly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anita
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>>>>>> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>>>>>> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <
>>>>>> <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>;
>>>>>> birders <birders...>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke
>>>>>> Birdwatcher
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion
>>>>>> no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you
>>>>>> may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion.
>>>>>> They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
>>>>>> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *-Josh Haas*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 269-420-9918
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <josh...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd
>>>>>> and recent message from PB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly
>>>>>> support each of your sentiments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
>>>>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion
>>>>>> Magazine was an added bonus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marta
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning,
>>>>>> it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may
>>>>>> or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those
>>>>>> inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited,
>>>>>> or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
>>>>>> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
>>>>>> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
>>>>>> objectionable about that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
>>>>>> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
>>>>>> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
>>>>>> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
>>>>>> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
>>>>>> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
>>>>>> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like
>>>>>> someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views
>>>>>> that I share.
>>>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <
>>>>>> <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
>>>>>> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
>>>>>> April.
>>>>>> Juliet Berger
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<30DEC0FC-B626-4FCE-9185-1B5D5D13A9E8...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<8B01EE57-71C5-484D-ABCB-667680DF8F71...>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<976462414.5469208.1609281021141...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<976462414.5469208.1609281021141...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJU4qegbMaiVvSSFexhAE_k5GR%<2BkoSX3i-zdQfupetThYA...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJU4qegbMaiVvSSFexhAE_k5GR%<2BkoSX3i-zdQfupetThYA...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<34C28796-8752-4AE2-A73B-ACCD727CCE66...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<34C28796-8752-4AE2-A73B-ACCD727CCE66...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<C2BC71B4-57A9-4497-8D44-A464A0E2FB44...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<C2BC71B4-57A9-4497-8D44-A464A0E2FB44...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAKTXQU9jj%2BjG6-OCaHxwBk8w_V%3DmL8cifmE%<3DieVyq4ZTK3Wnxw...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAKTXQU9jj%2BjG6-OCaHxwBk8w_V%3DmL8cifmE%<3DieVyq4ZTK3Wnxw...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<SJ0PR04MB72805011EB1FA03F5ED94790D4D70...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<SJ0PR04MB72805011EB1FA03F5ED94790D4D70...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/002c01d6dee8%241acc1690%24506443b0%<24...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/002c01d6dee8%241acc1690%24506443b0%<24...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<143097374.5799844.1609361588458...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<143097374.5799844.1609361588458...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<990FAE20-3087-40D1-B747-8A5861BDFBA8...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<990FAE20-3087-40D1-B747-8A5861BDFBA8...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<1562239028.3591295.1609369753429...>
>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<1562239028.3591295.1609369753429...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAFoKnJUxO_LmeuKiCoZ_4OJFhoT7dHRKWL2TCv4dbpQoqyuf7A...>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAFoKnJUxO_LmeuKiCoZ_4OJFhoT7dHRKWL2TCv4dbpQoqyuf7A...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>> www.glc.org
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CABVs24Linu0D4m6dpkMT0WgrO-Q64KY5Q5eivdbfKGJ-kCB4mQ...>
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CABVs24Linu0D4m6dpkMT0WgrO-Q64KY5Q5eivdbfKGJ-kCB4mQ...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
>>> *Timothy McKay*: University of Michigan
>>> Arthur F. Thurnau Professor of Physics
>>> <http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics>, Astronomy
>>> <http://www.astro.lsa.umich.edu/>, and Education <http://soe.umich.edu>
>>> Principal Investigator of the ECoach
>>> <http://digitaleducation.umich.edu/dei/e-coach/>, and SEISMIC
>>> <https://sites.google.com/umich.edu/seismic/home> projects
>>> Associate Dean for Undergraduate Education
>>> <https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/faculty-staff/undergraduate-education.html>, College
>>> of Literature, Science, and the Arts <https://lsa.umich.edu/>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CANALA3Vsgf0Tpg6OWJX78vFfUPasS6RJ4K2opVgmtVAi6VhK-g...>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CANALA3Vsgf0Tpg6OWJX78vFfUPasS6RJ4K2opVgmtVAi6VhK-g...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJXwan%<2BLxPTJVMyxwOUGzYdfWiiQ-dhQjYQrhnExK10RKw...>
> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJXwan%<2BLxPTJVMyxwOUGzYdfWiiQ-dhQjYQrhnExK10RKw...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> .
>

--
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Date: 12/31/20 3:00 pm
From: baikalteal13 <baikalteal13...>
Subject: [birders] How to subscribe to the listserver
Can someone get me the instructions so I can help a fellow birder subscribe?  Thanks.Don Burlett Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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Date: 12/31/20 1:57 pm
From: 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
I would rather people not be encouraged to leave, but instead encouraged to consider another point of view or, failing that, to ignore that which does not resonate for them. The more common bonds we can form, in a principled way, the better.
Respectfully,
Marta

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 31, 2020, at 3:45 PM, 'Alice Elliott' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>
> 
> Imagine walking through the world and thinking that birding is apolitical. Christ. No, definitely no politics here. There has never been any kind of politics in birdwatching, ever. Or any kind of environmental work. All of our environmental protections came in a vaccum, definitely not through lobbying or raising awareness or building power. You definitely shouldn't click on any of those links because they won't contain examples of politics impacting birds and other wildlife (including humans.) Personally when I bird I have a little bubble that I put around me and I don't listen to anything bad or sad or challenging!!!!
>
> (This is sarcasm, in case that wasn't clear.)
>
> If you don't want political emails or posts, leave the group. It's that simple. Honestly, it'd probably be a better place without you anyway.
>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author, Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
>> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy on this list.
>> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
>> Juliet Berger
>> Washtenaw Audubon
>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>> Marta,
>>>
>>> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>>>
>>> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.
>>>
>>> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>>>
>>> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>>>
>>> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color, or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>>>
>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>>>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding, are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”, or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>>>> Marta
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately, I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well said Bill!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the occasional butterfly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anita
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>>>>>> To: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>>>>>> Cc: Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Josh Haas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 269-420-9918
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <josh...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and recent message from PB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support each of your sentiments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine was an added bonus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marta
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be objectionable about that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders, explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>>>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks, April.
>>>>>> Juliet Berger
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<30DEC0FC-B626-4FCE-9185-1B5D5D13A9E8...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<8B01EE57-71C5-484D-ABCB-667680DF8F71...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<976462414.5469208.1609281021141...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJU4qegbMaiVvSSFexhAE_k5GR%<2BkoSX3i-zdQfupetThYA...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<34C28796-8752-4AE2-A73B-ACCD727CCE66...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<C2BC71B4-57A9-4497-8D44-A464A0E2FB44...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAKTXQU9jj%2BjG6-OCaHxwBk8w_V%3DmL8cifmE%<3DieVyq4ZTK3Wnxw...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<SJ0PR04MB72805011EB1FA03F5ED94790D4D70...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/002c01d6dee8%241acc1690%24506443b0%<24...>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<143097374.5799844.1609361588458...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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>>>>> .
>>>>> --
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>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<1562239028.3591295.1609369753429...>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>> ---
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>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAFoKnJUxO_LmeuKiCoZ_4OJFhoT7dHRKWL2TCv4dbpQoqyuf7A...>
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>> ---
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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>
> --
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Date: 12/31/20 12:45 pm
From: 'Alice Elliott' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
Imagine walking through the world and thinking that birding is apolitical.
Christ. No, definitely no politics
<https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/the-trump-administration-finds-that-environmental-racism-is-real/554315/>
here. There has never
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migratory_Bird_Treaty_Act_of_1918> been any
<https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-moves-forward-with-plan-to-end-wild-bird-protections>
kind
of politics
<https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-administration-moves-forward-with-plan-to-end-wild-bird-protections>
in
birdwatching
<https://www.audubon.org/news/black-birders-week-promotes-diversity-and-takes-racism-outdoors>,
ever <https://www.audubon.org/conservation/history-christmas-bird-count>.
Or any
<https://tcf.org/content/commentary/environmental-racism-left-black-communities-especially-vulnerable-covid-19/>
kind of environmental
<https://www.epa.gov/cwa-404/protection-wetlands-executive-order-11990>work.
All
<https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html>
of our environmental protections came in a vaccum, definitely not through
lobbying or raising awareness or building power. You definitely shouldn't
click on any of those links because they won't contain examples of politics
impacting birds and other wildlife (including humans.) Personally when I
bird I have a little bubble that I put around me and I don't listen to
anything bad or sad or challenging!!!!

(This is sarcasm, in case that wasn't clear.)

If you don't want political emails or posts, leave the group. It's that
simple. Honestly, it'd probably be a better place without you anyway.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
wrote:

> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding
> culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author,
> Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the
> piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all
> birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who
> don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to
> discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more
> important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy
> on this list.
> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that
> all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in
> birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are
> a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
> Juliet Berger
> Washtenaw Audubon
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
> wrote:
>
>> Marta,
>>
>> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I
>> share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
>> BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>>
>> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It
>> contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest
>> in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.
>>
>> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
>> posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>>
>> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
>> delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
>> important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
>> maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
>> to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
>> alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>>
>> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color,
>> or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me
>> that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list
>> discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking
>> and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
>> counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>>
>> Allen T. Chartier
>> Inkster, Michigan
>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>>
>>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a
>>> birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
>>> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
>>> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
>>> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
>>> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
>>> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>>> Marta
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
>>> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
>>> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
>>> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
>>> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
>>> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
>>> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
>>> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
>>> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
>>> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
>>> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via
>>> Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Well said Bill!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case
>>> bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other
>>> subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.)
>>> in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
>>> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
>>> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
>>> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
>>> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
>>> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
>>> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>>
>>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
>>> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
>>> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
>>> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
>>> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
>>> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
>>> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
>>> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
>>> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
>>> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
>>> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
>>> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
>>> occasional butterfly?
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>>> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>>> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>;
>>> Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke
>>> Birdwatcher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no
>>> differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may
>>> not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They
>>> wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
>>> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-Josh Haas*
>>>
>>> 269-420-9918
>>>
>>> <josh...>
>>>
>>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd
>>> and recent message from PB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly
>>> support each of your sentiments.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine
>>> was an added bonus.
>>>
>>> Marta
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> JC
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it
>>> has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or
>>> may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those
>>> inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or
>>> not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
>>> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
>>> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
>>> objectionable about that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
>>> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
>>> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
>>> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
>>> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
>>> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
>>> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>
>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>
>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>
>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>
>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's
>>> personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
>>> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
>>> April.
>>> Juliet Berger
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>>> >
>>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>>
>>>
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Back to top
Date: 12/31/20 7:01 am
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
Dr. Lanham's article was hopeful, uplifting, and poetic for sure. It might
give some a sense that everything is OK, and that there isn't anything more
to do. But very clearly, his 9 points is a "to do" list. I hope that during
2021 we all think about what we can do to increase the number and diversity
of birders in Michigan. Volunteers I've had help me with bird banding over
the years have been (and are) African American, LatinX, East Asian, South
Asian, LGBTQ, men, women, young, and old. Some are seasoned birders, but
more importantly many are budding birders. The diversity, interest, and
opportunity is out there. Trust me.

Watching a flock of a single species, like Snow Buntings, wheel and swirl
over a wintery field is certainly inspiring. But equally inspiring, if you
have had the privileges that I have, is to watch diverse mixed species
feeding flocks in the Andes, Amazon, or Himalayas, with 30-50 or more
colorful species, often thanks to local birding guides of color. I think we
all understand the excitement of diversity. Let's not ignore the human
aspect. Maybe do as Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (and others) suggest: Make a friend
today who does not look like you today.

Whatever you do in 2021, I wish you the greatest success. And it seems that
an old adage applies as always: Lead, Follow, or get out of the way. I plan
to do a little bit of each, as appropriate.

Happy New Year everyone!

[image: image.png]
Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: <amazilia3...>
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 10:55 PM Linda Berauer <lberauer...> wrote:

> Thank you Timothy, Juliet, Allen, and Marta, for your courage in speaking
> up, and all the others who expressed appreciation for April's link to
> Drew's article. The mission of "culturing and maintaining interest in
> birding in Michigan" is a human endeavor. To pretend that it's only about
> the birds and not the humans who care about them and their habitat, watch
> them, and count them is disingenuous. If we truly care about birds and the
> habitat they need to survive, we need as many humans as possible to join us
> in that endeavor and feel welcome and comfortable doing so.
>
> I truly hope this list isn't only about numbers and locations and
> checklists. If it is, the numbers will continue to dwindle and the
> checklists will soon be barren.
>
> I respect the right of Patrick and those who agree with him to express
> their opinion. I simply hope that they will take out their "feel" guide and
> consider the opinions of Drew and those who expressed appreciation of his
> article. Are you really advocating to sticking to "just birds," or is there
> something else that bothers you about Drew's article? I read factual
> statements in his piece, expressed in the language of poetry. What is it
> about those facts that bothers you? The fact that he points to the fact
> that many birds are named after slave owners or white supremacists? And
> that some people would prefer more descriptive names? Why is that so
> bothersome that discussion of it should be squashed?
>
> We should probably end this discussion, but I hope that everyone who
> participated or watched on the sidelines will think deeply about the issues
> raised. Those issues are important to us as humans, and yes, to the birds,
> whose continued existence is unfortunately at the mercy of the decisions we
> humans make now - the decisions we make as to how we live to together as a
> society, how we use our resources, and whether we preserve the land.
> Driving to locations to catch a glimpse of the rare species, counting them,
> checking them off on our lists is not going to save them. We need every
> human possible to care about them. And posts that promote that is
> absolutely what we should be about.
>
> Linda Berauer
> Ann Arbor
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:49 PM Timothy McKay <tamckay...> wrote:
>
>> I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with Juliet’s
>> interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If you can’t
>> see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both birds AND
>> people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to read his
>> book “The Home Place”.
>>
>> Happy New Year to you all,
>> Tim
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding
>>> culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author,
>>> Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the
>>> piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all
>>> birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who
>>> don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
>>> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to
>>> discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more
>>> important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy
>>> on this list.
>>> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice
>>> that all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race
>>> in birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we
>>> are a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
>>> Juliet Berger
>>> Washtenaw Audubon
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Marta,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today.
>>>> I share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
>>>> BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>>>>
>>>> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan.
>>>> It contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining
>>>> interest in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural
>>>> wonders.
>>>>
>>>> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
>>>> posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>>>>
>>>> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
>>>> delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
>>>> important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
>>>> maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
>>>> to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
>>>> alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of
>>>> color, or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses
>>>> me that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list
>>>> discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking
>>>> and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
>>>> counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>>>>
>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by
>>>>> a birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
>>>>> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
>>>>> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
>>>>> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
>>>>> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
>>>>> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>>>>> Marta
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
>>>>> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
>>>>> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
>>>>> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
>>>>> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
>>>>> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
>>>>> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
>>>>> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
>>>>> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
>>>>> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
>>>>> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via
>>>>> Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well said Bill!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
>>>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this
>>>>> case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any
>>>>> other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc.
>>>>> etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
>>>>> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
>>>>> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
>>>>> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
>>>>> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
>>>>> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
>>>>> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>>>>
>>>>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
>>>>> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
>>>>> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
>>>>> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
>>>>> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
>>>>> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
>>>>> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
>>>>> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
>>>>> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
>>>>> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
>>>>> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
>>>>> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
>>>>> occasional butterfly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anita
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>>>>> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>>>>> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <
>>>>> <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders
>>>>> <birders...>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke
>>>>> Birdwatcher
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion
>>>>> no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you
>>>>> may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion.
>>>>> They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
>>>>> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *-Josh Haas*
>>>>>
>>>>> 269-420-9918
>>>>>
>>>>> <josh...>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd
>>>>> and recent message from PB.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly
>>>>> support each of your sentiments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
>>>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion
>>>>> Magazine was an added bonus.
>>>>>
>>>>> Marta
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allen,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> JC
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it
>>>>> has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or
>>>>> may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those
>>>>> inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or
>>>>> not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
>>>>> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
>>>>> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
>>>>> objectionable about that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
>>>>> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
>>>>> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
>>>>> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
>>>>> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
>>>>> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
>>>>> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>>>
>>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>>>
>>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>>>
>>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>>>
>>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's
>>>>> personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <
>>>>> <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
>>>>> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
>>>>> April.
>>>>> Juliet Berger
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> > ---
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>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<30DEC0FC-B626-4FCE-9185-1B5D5D13A9E8...>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<8B01EE57-71C5-484D-ABCB-667680DF8F71...>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
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>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<976462414.5469208.1609281021141...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
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>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJU4qegbMaiVvSSFexhAE_k5GR%<2BkoSX3i-zdQfupetThYA...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<34C28796-8752-4AE2-A73B-ACCD727CCE66...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<C2BC71B4-57A9-4497-8D44-A464A0E2FB44...>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<C2BC71B4-57A9-4497-8D44-A464A0E2FB44...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAKTXQU9jj%2BjG6-OCaHxwBk8w_V%3DmL8cifmE%<3DieVyq4ZTK3Wnxw...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<SJ0PR04MB72805011EB1FA03F5ED94790D4D70...>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<SJ0PR04MB72805011EB1FA03F5ED94790D4D70...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/002c01d6dee8%241acc1690%24506443b0%<24...>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/002c01d6dee8%241acc1690%24506443b0%<24...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<143097374.5799844.1609361588458...>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<143097374.5799844.1609361588458...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<990FAE20-3087-40D1-B747-8A5861BDFBA8...>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<990FAE20-3087-40D1-B747-8A5861BDFBA8...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>>> www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<1562239028.3591295.1609369753429...>
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<1562239028.3591295.1609369753429...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>>> www.glc.org
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAFoKnJUxO_LmeuKiCoZ_4OJFhoT7dHRKWL2TCv4dbpQoqyuf7A...>
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAFoKnJUxO_LmeuKiCoZ_4OJFhoT7dHRKWL2TCv4dbpQoqyuf7A...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CABVs24Linu0D4m6dpkMT0WgrO-Q64KY5Q5eivdbfKGJ-kCB4mQ...>
>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CABVs24Linu0D4m6dpkMT0WgrO-Q64KY5Q5eivdbfKGJ-kCB4mQ...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
>> *Timothy McKay*: University of Michigan
>> Arthur F. Thurnau Professor of Physics <http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics>
>> , Astronomy <http://www.astro.lsa.umich.edu/>, and Education
>> <http://soe.umich.edu>
>> Principal Investigator of the ECoach
>> <http://digitaleducation.umich.edu/dei/e-coach/>, and SEISMIC
>> <https://sites.google.com/umich.edu/seismic/home> projects
>> Associate Dean for Undergraduate Education
>> <https://lsa.umich.edu/lsa/faculty-staff/undergraduate-education.html>, College
>> of Literature, Science, and the Arts <https://lsa.umich.edu/>
>>
>> --
>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>> www.glc.org
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Birders" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CANALA3Vsgf0Tpg6OWJX78vFfUPasS6RJ4K2opVgmtVAi6VhK-g...>
>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CANALA3Vsgf0Tpg6OWJX78vFfUPasS6RJ4K2opVgmtVAi6VhK-g...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>

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Back to top
Date: 12/31/20 5:56 am
From: Penny <dorfdoom...>
Subject: [birders] Lake St. Clair sightings
Last two days have been good for diving ducks on my Cove on Lake St. Clair: about 30 Common Mergansers, 5 female Buffleheads, 3 male Goldeneyes, hundreds of Canvasbacks, and an adult Bald Eagle.
Penny

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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 7:56 pm
From: Linda Berauer <lberauer...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
Thank you Timothy, Juliet, Allen, and Marta, for your courage in speaking
up, and all the others who expressed appreciation for April's link to
Drew's article. The mission of "culturing and maintaining interest in
birding in Michigan" is a human endeavor. To pretend that it's only about
the birds and not the humans who care about them and their habitat, watch
them, and count them is disingenuous. If we truly care about birds and the
habitat they need to survive, we need as many humans as possible to join us
in that endeavor and feel welcome and comfortable doing so.

I truly hope this list isn't only about numbers and locations and
checklists. If it is, the numbers will continue to dwindle and the
checklists will soon be barren.

I respect the right of Patrick and those who agree with him to express
their opinion. I simply hope that they will take out their "feel" guide and
consider the opinions of Drew and those who expressed appreciation of his
article. Are you really advocating to sticking to "just birds," or is there
something else that bothers you about Drew's article? I read factual
statements in his piece, expressed in the language of poetry. What is it
about those facts that bothers you? The fact that he points to the fact
that many birds are named after slave owners or white supremacists? And
that some people would prefer more descriptive names? Why is that so
bothersome that discussion of it should be squashed?

We should probably end this discussion, but I hope that everyone who
participated or watched on the sidelines will think deeply about the issues
raised. Those issues are important to us as humans, and yes, to the birds,
whose continued existence is unfortunately at the mercy of the decisions we
humans make now - the decisions we make as to how we live to together as a
society, how we use our resources, and whether we preserve the land.
Driving to locations to catch a glimpse of the rare species, counting them,
checking them off on our lists is not going to save them. We need every
human possible to care about them. And posts that promote that is
absolutely what we should be about.

Linda Berauer
Ann Arbor



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 9:49 PM Timothy McKay <tamckay...> wrote:

> I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with Juliet’s
> interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If you can’t
> see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both birds AND
> people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to read his
> book “The Home Place”.
>
> Happy New Year to you all,
> Tim
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
> wrote:
>
>> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding
>> culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author,
>> Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the
>> piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all
>> birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who
>> don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
>> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to
>> discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more
>> important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy
>> on this list.
>> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that
>> all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in
>> birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are
>> a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
>> Juliet Berger
>> Washtenaw Audubon
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Marta,
>>>
>>> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I
>>> share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
>>> BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>>>
>>> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It
>>> contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest
>>> in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.
>>>
>>> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
>>> posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>>>
>>> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
>>> delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
>>> important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
>>> maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
>>> to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
>>> alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>>>
>>> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color,
>>> or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me
>>> that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list
>>> discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking
>>> and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
>>> counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>>>
>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a
>>>> birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
>>>> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
>>>> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
>>>> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
>>>> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
>>>> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>>>> Marta
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
>>>> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
>>>> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
>>>> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
>>>> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
>>>> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
>>>> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
>>>> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
>>>> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
>>>> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
>>>> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via
>>>> Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well said Bill!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
>>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case
>>>> bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other
>>>> subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.)
>>>> in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
>>>> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
>>>> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
>>>> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
>>>> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
>>>> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
>>>> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>>>
>>>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
>>>> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
>>>> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
>>>> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
>>>> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
>>>> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
>>>> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
>>>> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
>>>> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
>>>> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
>>>> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
>>>> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
>>>> occasional butterfly?
>>>>
>>>> Anita
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>>>> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>>>> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <
>>>> <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <
>>>> <birders...>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke
>>>> Birdwatcher
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion
>>>> no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you
>>>> may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion.
>>>> They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
>>>> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *-Josh Haas*
>>>>
>>>> 269-420-9918
>>>>
>>>> <josh...>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>>>
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd
>>>> and recent message from PB.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly
>>>> support each of your sentiments.
>>>>
>>>> Lisa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
>>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion
>>>> Magazine was an added bonus.
>>>>
>>>> Marta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Allen,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> JC
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it
>>>> has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or
>>>> may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those
>>>> inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or
>>>> not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
>>>> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
>>>> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
>>>> objectionable about that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
>>>> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
>>>> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
>>>> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
>>>> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
>>>> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
>>>> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>>
>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>>
>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>>
>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>>
>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's
>>>> personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <
>>>> <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
>>>> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
>>>> April.
>>>> Juliet Berger
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>>>> >
>>>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>> >
>>>> > --
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> .
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<CAFoKnJUxO_LmeuKiCoZ_4OJFhoT7dHRKWL2TCv4dbpQoqyuf7A...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
> --
> *Timothy McKay*: University of Michigan
> Arthur F. Thurnau Professor of Physics <http://www.lsa.umich.edu/physics>,
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> <http://soe.umich.edu>
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>
> --
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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 7:54 pm
From: Anna walker <awmtngal...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
Flashback to May 25, 2020, Bramble area of Central Park, NYC! Christian Cooper, a black birdwatcher asks a white woman to put her dog on a leash as required by the Central Park Conservancy. The woman calls 911 twice, claiming he assaulted her.
The same day George Floyd is killed by police in Minneapolis.
People we have a problem. J. Drew Lanham’s article belongs on every birding group’s site. Thank you to all that see this is a birding issue, and a social justice issue that needs to be addressed and not avoided!
Anna
Hartland

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 30, 2020, at 9:49 PM, Timothy McKay <tamckay...> wrote:
>
> 
> I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with Juliet’s interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If you can’t see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both birds AND people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to read his book “The Home Place”.
>
> Happy New Year to you all,
> Tim
>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author, Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
>> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy on this list.
>> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
>> Juliet Berger
>> Washtenaw Audubon
>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>> Marta,
>>>
>>> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>>>
>>> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.
>>>
>>> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>>>
>>> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>>>
>>> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color, or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>>>
>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>>>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding, are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”, or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>>>> Marta
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately, I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well said Bill!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the occasional butterfly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anita
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>>>>>> To: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>>>>>> Cc: Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Josh Haas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 269-420-9918
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <josh...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and recent message from PB.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support each of your sentiments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine was an added bonus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marta
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be objectionable about that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders, explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>>>>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks, April.
>>>>>> Juliet Berger
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> > ---
>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<30DEC0FC-B626-4FCE-9185-1B5D5D13A9E8...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<8B01EE57-71C5-484D-ABCB-667680DF8F71...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<976462414.5469208.1609281021141...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJU4qegbMaiVvSSFexhAE_k5GR%<2BkoSX3i-zdQfupetThYA...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<34C28796-8752-4AE2-A73B-ACCD727CCE66...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<C2BC71B4-57A9-4497-8D44-A464A0E2FB44...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAKTXQU9jj%2BjG6-OCaHxwBk8w_V%3DmL8cifmE%<3DieVyq4ZTK3Wnxw...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<SJ0PR04MB72805011EB1FA03F5ED94790D4D70...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/002c01d6dee8%241acc1690%24506443b0%<24...>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<143097374.5799844.1609361588458...>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
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>>>>> .
>>>>> --
>>>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
>>>>> ---
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<1562239028.3591295.1609369753429...>
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>> --
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>> ---
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> --
> Timothy McKay: University of Michigan
> Arthur F. Thurnau Professor of Physics, Astronomy, and Education
> Principal Investigator of the ECoach, and SEISMIC projects
> Associate Dean for Undergraduate Education, College of Literature, Science, and the Arts
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 6:49 pm
From: Timothy McKay <tamckay...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
I’ve been on this list for 15-20 years and completely agree with Juliet’s
interpretation. Dr. Lanham’s piece is clearly birders content. If you can’t
see that, perhaps you should remember that birding involves both birds AND
people, with all of our societal issues. I’d encourage you all to read his
book “The Home Place”.

Happy New Year to you all,
Tim

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:42 PM Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
wrote:

> The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding
> culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author,
> Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the
> piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all
> birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who
> don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
> Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to
> discuss birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more
> important than many bird related topics that have not generated controversy
> on this list.
> I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that
> all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in
> birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are
> a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
> Juliet Berger
> Washtenaw Audubon
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
> wrote:
>
>> Marta,
>>
>> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I
>> share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
>> BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>>
>> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It
>> contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest
>> in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.
>>
>> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
>> posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>>
>> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
>> delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
>> important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
>> maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
>> to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
>> alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>>
>> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color,
>> or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me
>> that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list
>> discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking
>> and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
>> counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>>
>> Allen T. Chartier
>> Inkster, Michigan
>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>>
>>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a
>>> birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
>>> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
>>> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
>>> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
>>> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
>>> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>>> Marta
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
>>> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
>>> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
>>> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
>>> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
>>> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
>>> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
>>> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
>>> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
>>> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
>>> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via
>>> Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Well said Bill!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case
>>> bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other
>>> subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.)
>>> in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
>>> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
>>> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
>>> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
>>> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
>>> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
>>> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>>
>>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
>>> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
>>> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
>>> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
>>> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
>>> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
>>> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
>>> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
>>> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
>>> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
>>> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
>>> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
>>> occasional butterfly?
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>>> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>>> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>;
>>> Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke
>>> Birdwatcher
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no
>>> differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may
>>> not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They
>>> wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
>>> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-Josh Haas*
>>>
>>> 269-420-9918
>>>
>>> <josh...>
>>>
>>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd
>>> and recent message from PB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly
>>> support each of your sentiments.
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
>>> <birders...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine
>>> was an added bonus.
>>>
>>> Marta
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> JC
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it
>>> has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or
>>> may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those
>>> inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or
>>> not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
>>> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
>>> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
>>> objectionable about that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
>>> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
>>> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
>>> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
>>> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
>>> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
>>> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen T. Chartier
>>>
>>> Inkster, Michigan
>>>
>>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>>
>>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>>
>>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's
>>> personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
>>> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
>>> April.
>>> Juliet Berger
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>>> >
>>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> > ---
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<30DEC0FC-B626-4FCE-9185-1B5D5D13A9E8...>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Birders" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>>> www.glc.org
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/CAFoKnJU4qegbMaiVvSSFexhAE_k5GR%<2BkoSX3i-zdQfupetThYA...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
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>>> ---
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>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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Date: 12/30/20 6:42 pm
From: Juliet Berger <juliet.berger...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
The original poster's link was and is directly about birds and birding
culture, and as such is absolutely the purview of this group. The author,
Drew Lanham, is a celebrated ornithology professor at Clemson, and the
piece is about birding. To object to a discussion of ways to make all
birders feel welcome in our community, is to disenfranchise those folks who
don't feel welcomed in our birding community.
Welcoming everyone isn't so hard, is it? How/why is it offensive to discuss
birding culture? It is part of our list's mission, and more important than
many bird related topics that have not generated controversy on this list.
I'm afraid that birders are subject to the same racism and prejudice that
all of us succumb to, unconsciously or consciously. To deny that race in
birding a topic for discussion on a birders group, is to accept that we are
a racist group and that we like it that way. We don't like it that way.
Juliet Berger
Washtenaw Audubon

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 8:19 PM Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:

> Marta,
>
> Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I
> share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
> BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:
>
> BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It
> contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest
> in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.
>
> And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
> posted, and allowed it to be discussed.
>
> Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
> delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
> important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
> maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
> to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
> alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.
>
> Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color,
> or why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me
> that if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list
> discussing "only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking
> and unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
> counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.
>
> Allen T. Chartier
> Inkster, Michigan
> Email: <amazilia3...>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:
>
>> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a
>> birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
>> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
>> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
>> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
>> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
>> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
>> Marta
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
>> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
>> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
>> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
>> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
>> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
>> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
>> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
>> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
>> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
>> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via
>> Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well said Bill!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
>> <birders...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case
>> bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other
>> subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.)
>> in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
>> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
>> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
>> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
>> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
>> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
>> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>
>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
>> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
>> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
>> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
>> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
>> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
>> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
>> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
>> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
>> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
>> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
>> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
>> occasional butterfly?
>>
>> Anita
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>;
>> Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
>> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke
>> Birdwatcher
>>
>>
>>
>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no
>> differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may
>> not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They
>> wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
>> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-Josh Haas*
>>
>> 269-420-9918
>>
>> <josh...>
>>
>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and
>> recent message from PB.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support
>> each of your sentiments.
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
>> <birders...> wrote:
>>
>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine
>> was an added bonus.
>>
>> Marta
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>
>>
>>
>> JC
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it
>> has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or
>> may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those
>> inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>
>>
>>
>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or
>> not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
>> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
>> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
>> objectionable about that?
>>
>>
>>
>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
>> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
>> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
>> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
>> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
>> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
>> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen T. Chartier
>>
>> Inkster, Michigan
>>
>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>
>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>
>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's
>> personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
>> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
>> April.
>> Juliet Berger
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>> >
>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > --
>> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
>> www.glc.org
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>> Groups "Birders" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<30DEC0FC-B626-4FCE-9185-1B5D5D13A9E8...>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> .
>>
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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 5:19 pm
From: Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
Marta,

Thank you for finding the words that I have had difficulty with today. I
share your distress and some of your confusion. The description of the
BIRDERS list, visible to everyone who subscribes, is as follows:

BIRDERS provides a forum for those interested in birding in Michigan. It
contributes importantly to the goal of culturing and maintaining interest
in birding in Michigan and appreciation of Michigan’s natural wonders.

And, the LIStOWNER has allowed that 6-word positing with a link to be
posted, and allowed it to be discussed.

Carping that the list "rules" don't allow this discussion is clearly
delusional. It also fails to put forth a single argument about an
important question; why aren't there more birders of color? "Culturing and
maintaining interest in birding..." means recruiting more birders not only
to enrich our own experiences, but to increase the strength of our
alliances in fighting to conserve birds and address climate instability.

Sadly, it is not a mystery to me why there aren't more birders of color, or
why the few that are among us prefer to bird alone. It distresses me that
if I post just one similar thing in the future, despite the list discussing
"only birds" for 363 days a year, I would get the same shocking and
unwelcoming responses as I've seen here, and that is very sad and
counterproductive to the BIRDERS list, and to birding as a whole.

Allen T. Chartier
Inkster, Michigan
Email: <amazilia3...>
Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 6:40 PM Marta Manildi <mamanildi...> wrote:

> The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a
> birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the
> repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding,
> are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a
> literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it
> cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”,
> or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
> Marta
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to
> <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with
> Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list
> server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to
> agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding
> activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately,
> I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be
> allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this
> I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all
> the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended
> to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via
> Birders <birders...> wrote:
>
>
> Well said Bill!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
> <birders...> wrote:
>
> 
> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case
> bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other
> subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.)
> in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>
> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
> occasional butterfly?
>
> Anita
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>;
> Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
>
>
>
> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no
> differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may
> not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They
> wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>
>
>
> *-Josh Haas*
>
> 269-420-9918
>
> <josh...>
>
> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>
> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and
> recent message from PB.
>
>
>
> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support
> each of your sentiments.
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <
> <birders...> wrote:
>
> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine
> was an added bonus.
>
> Marta
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Allen,
>
>
>
> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>
>
>
> JC
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has
> never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may
> not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries
> are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>
>
>
> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or
> not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this
> post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but
> did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be
> objectionable about that?
>
>
>
> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should
> understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of
> our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders,
> explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we
> should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of
> course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by
> attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>
>
>
> Allen T. Chartier
>
> Inkster, Michigan
>
> Email: <amazilia3...>
>
> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>
> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...>
> wrote:
>
>
> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's
> personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought
> provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks,
> April.
> Juliet Berger
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
> >
> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
> >
> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > --
> > Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at
> www.glc.org
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>
>
>
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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 3:40 pm
From: 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
The original post was 6 words long and a link to something written by a birder and nature lover. The strong responses against the post and the repeated characterization of it as being off-topic, unrelated to birding, are confusing and distressing to me. Is it because the link was to a literary/poetic expression of one man’s experience? What line did it cross? Or was it the further responses saying in effect “I enjoyed that”, or “thank you”, that crossed some listserve boundary?
Marta

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 30, 2020, at 6:09 PM, pat j <p40warhawk2002...> wrote:
>
> 
> When we send an email to this list server, we send it to <birders...>, not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with Bill, I think we need to get back to bird related subjects on this list server and check the other subjects at the door! We are not always going to agree with everyone else about every subject so why not share the birding activities and reports that we all enjoy and let it go at that. Ultimately, I guess it's up to the administrator of this site as to what will be allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when I see posts like this I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudge through all the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intended to be… a place to share our passion of birding! Patrick J.
>
>
>
>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Well said Bill!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>>
>> 
>> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>>
>> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the occasional butterfly?
>>
>> Anita
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
>> To: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
>> Cc: Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
>> Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
>>
>>
>>
>> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner decided it was. Seems done to me.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Josh Haas
>>
>> 269-420-9918
>>
>> <josh...>
>>
>> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and recent message from PB.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support each of your sentiments.
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> wrote:
>>
>> I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine was an added bonus.
>>
>> Marta
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.
>>
>>
>>
>> JC
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.
>>
>>
>>
>> The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be objectionable about that?
>>
>>
>>
>> The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders, explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by attempts to shut these important conversations down.
>>
>>
>>
>> Allen T. Chartier
>>
>> Inkster, Michigan
>>
>> Email: <amazilia3...>
>>
>> Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/
>>
>> Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
>> Pat B. Howell, Michigan
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks, April.
>> Juliet Berger
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>> >
>> > https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>> >
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > --
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>>
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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 3:09 pm
From: 'pat j' via Birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher

When we send an email to this list server, we send it to <birders...>,not <My_Agenda...>! I agree with Bill, I think we need to get backto bird related subjects on this list server and check the other subjects atthe door! We are not always going to agree with everyone else about everysubject so why not share the birding activities and reports that we all enjoyand let it go at that. Ultimately, I guess it's up to the administrator of thissite as to what will be allowed and what will not be tolerated. Usually when Isee posts like this I hit the delete button, I think it's a shame we have to trudgethrough all the minutiae to get to the heart of what this site was initially intendedto be… a place to share our passion of birding!  Patrick J.



On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 04:48:53 PM EST, 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...> wrote:

Well said Bill!

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...> wrote:



 This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that being said, my vote is to stick with birds. 
William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan

On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <ibblazin...> wrote:


Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the occasional butterfly?

Anita

 

 

From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
Cc: Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher

 

Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion.  Just because you may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion.  They wondered if this was the right place for the article.  The list owner decided it was.  Seems done to me.  

 

-Josh Haas

269-420-9918

<josh...>

https://www.hawksonthewing.com

https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing






On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:





I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and recent message from PB.  

 

Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support each of your sentiments.

Lisa

 

 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...> wrote:


I loved the post and appreciated it.  The introduction to Orion Magazine was an added bonus.

Marta

 

 





 

On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...> wrote:

 

Allen,

 

Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could. 

 

JC

Sent from my iPhone






On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...> wrote:





I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.

 

The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this  post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be objectionable about that?

 

The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders, explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by attempts to shut these important conversations down.

 

Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/



 

 

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...> wrote:



does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
Pat B. Howell, Michigan

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...> wrote:

 

 

Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks, April.
Juliet Berger

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...> wrote:
>
> Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>
> https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to birders+<unsubscribe...>
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/great-lakes.net/d/msgid/birders/<30DEC0FC-B626-4FCE-9185-1B5D5D13A9E8...>



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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 2:03 pm
From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Redpolls
In the spirit of Mr. Sonnet’s response moving on to something maybe all of us can enjoy... Our redpoll flock continues and at times has been as strong as 60+ birds. What a winter. I hope all will enjoy this image from a couple days ago when snow squalls were popping through and the birds were active. Cheers and a happy new year.

P.S.- Menard's is giving away their leftover Christmas trees for FREE. Great bird cover near feeders for those that may need some.

[cid:D74B7953-C760-4E5A-926C-9061EA33F94D-L0-001]


-Josh Haas
269-420-9918
<josh...>
https://www.hawksonthewing.com
https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing

On Dec 30, 2020, at 16:55, Jeff Day <dayjef71...> wrote:


That, sir, is THE best response to date. I’ll leave it there…

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 4:48 PM 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <birders...><mailto:<birders...>> wrote:
Well said Bill!

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <birders...><mailto:<birders...>> wrote:


This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.) in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that being said, my vote is to stick with birds.

William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan


On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...><mailto:<ibblazin...> <ibblazin...><mailto:<ibblazin...>> wrote:



Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the occasional butterfly?

Anita





From: Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...><mailto:<joshuahaas...>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
To: Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...><mailto:<lisalk...>>
Cc: Marta Manildi <mamanildi...><mailto:<mamanildi...>>; Jchordash <jchordash...><mailto:<jchordash...>>; Allen Chartier <amazilia3...><mailto:<amazilia3...>>; birders <birders...><mailto:<birders...>>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher



Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner decided it was. Seems done to me.



-Josh Haas

269-420-9918

<josh...><mailto:<josh...>

https://www.hawksonthewing.com

https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing



On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...><mailto:<lisalk...>> wrote:



I completely agree with those of you who have spoken up about the odd and recent message from PB.



Thanks to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I wholeheartedly support each of your sentiments.

Lisa





On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 9:47 AM 'Marta Manildi' via Birders <birders...><mailto:<birders...>> wrote:

I loved the post and appreciated it. The introduction to Orion Magazine was an added bonus.

Marta









On Dec 30, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Jchordash <jchordash...><mailto:<jchordash...>> wrote:



Allen,



Thank for expressing my sentiments. You said it better than I could.



JC

Sent from my iPhone



On Dec 29, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Allen Chartier <amazilia3...><mailto:<amazilia3...>> wrote:



I have been on this list for perhaps 2 decades. From the beginning, it has never been appropriate to complain to the entire list about what may or may not be within the (rather broad) guidelines of the list. Those inquiries are always to be addressed only to the listowner.



The posting in question merely provided a link that can be visited, or not, without providing any commentary on the content. Responses to this post, including mine, expressed approval and interest in the content, but did not share any details of that content. So, what could possibly be objectionable about that?



The content at the link discusses, among other things, how we should understand our fellow birders, appreciate the feelings and experiences of our fellow birders, understand how history has affected our fellow birders, explore ways to improve relationships with our fellow birders, and how we should respect our fellow birders. Anyone can disagree with these points of course, but specific arguments should be made on the content, not by attempts to shut these important conversations down.



Allen T. Chartier

Inkster, Michigan

Email: <amazilia3...><mailto:<amazilia3...>

Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mihummingbirdguy/collections/

Website/Blog: http://mihummingbirdguy.blogspot.com/

[https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1C2Ec3cR38dHwggKJ3JC0asbZaWa3-Ejd&export=download]





On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Baize <pkbaize...><mailto:<pkbaize...>> wrote:

does this really belong on birder's it looks and sounds like someone's personal, social and political viewpoint. Certainly not views that I share.
Pat B. Howell, Michigan

On Tuesday, December 29, 2020, 12:31:43 PM EST, <juliet.berger...><mailto:<juliet.berger...>> wrote:





Posted to Washtenaw Audubon’s Facebook page, along with other thought provoking articles that April has shared in the last few months. Thanks, April.
Juliet Berger

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 29, 2020, at 4:53 AM, April Campbell <adc14...><mailto:<adc14...>> wrote:
>
> Drew keeps on. God bless him.
>
> https://orionmagazine.org/article/9-rules-for-the-woke-birdwatcher/
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> --
> Birders is a service of the Great Lakes Commission. Visit us at www.glc.org<http://www.glc.org/>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Birders" group.
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Back to top
Date: 12/30/20 1:55 pm
From: Jeff Day <dayjef71...>
Subject: Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
That, sir, is THE best response to date. I’ll leave it there…

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 4:48 PM 'THOMAS HODGSON' via Birders <
<birders...> wrote:

> Well said Bill!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 4:24 PM, 'Bill Sonnett' via Birders <
> <birders...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> This group was designed to bring folks with like interest (in this case
> bird watching) together. Strongly expressed opinions on almost any other
> subject (cats, guns, eating meat, abortion, religion, politics, etc. etc.)
> in the end will divide us. That is why there are other groups that
> specialize in these types of debates. I am 77 and have been watching birds
> all my life and have many friends who enjoy the hobby with me. Almost all
> disagree with each other on some subject, but we get together to celebrate
> our like interest. Most have the maturity to leave their differences aside
> and treat everyone with respect and enjoy what we have in common. With that
> being said, my vote is to stick with birds.
>
> William Sonnett, Jackson, Michigan
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2020, 03:12:39 PM EST, <ibblazin...> <
> <ibblazin...> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you, Josh, for being the voice of reason. I agree that if one
> opinion needs to be honored, all should be. I agree with Patrick. I also
> agree with other posters who say all birders or, more appropriately, all
> people deserve courtesy and respect and that discussions about race are
> important. I just don’t think this board is the place to have them or that
> it should be used to promote one’s social agenda. As for “if you don’t like
> the post, don’t read it”, that’s nearly impossible. I don’t know what the
> post is about until I read it and, once read, it can’t be un-read if it’s
> objectionable to me. I subscribe to Birders to learn about/find news about
> birds. There are plenty of other forums for posting links and having
> discussions about social issues. Can we please stick to birds and the
> occasional butterfly?
>
> Anita
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Joshua Haas <joshuahaas...>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 30, 2020 2:55 PM
> *To:* Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...>
> *Cc:* Marta Manildi <mamanildi...>; Jchordash <jchordash...>;
> Allen Chartier <amazilia3...>; birders <birders...>
> *Subject:* Re: [birders] Orion Magazine | 9 Rules for the Woke Birdwatcher
>
>
>
> Those speaking positively about the article are sharing their opinion no
> differently than the “PB” who posted their opinion. Just because you may
> not agree with the person doesn’t mean they can’t have an opinion. They
> wondered if this was the right place for the article. The list owner
> decided it was. Seems done to me.
>
>
>
> *-Josh Haas*
>
> 269-420-9918
>
> <josh...>
>
> https://www.hawksonthewing.com
>
> https://www.facebook.com/hawksonthewing
>
>
>
> On Dec 30, 2020, at 14:15, Lisa Lava-Kellar <lisalk...> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I completely agree with those of you who h