Date: 5/2/24 10:05 am From: Gail B. Mackiernan <katahdinss...> Subject: Re: [MDBirding] N Bobwhite, P.G. Co
I don't think this adequately explains the decline and loss in areas, like wildlife refuges, where habitat has not changed. In the 1970s populations existed even in suburban areas of Montgomery County, in parks etc. As a biologist, I think more was/is going on. Loss of insects may well be a major factor. Certainly in the 50s-70s, for example, walking through any somewhat weedy/grassy area would incite an explosion of grasshoppers. Living in an apartment as a kid, we could catch them even in the tiny grassy areas that did not get routinely mowed. I do not use pesticides in my Colesville yard of almost an acre, one part of the yard and I *never* see a grasshopper now. And of course we do not have any insects at our porch lights anymore...
How could Bobwhite live (and reproduce effectively so as to maintain populations) in what were certainly marginal (or non-ideal) habitats in 50-80s and now it takes careful management, e.g. at Chino Farms,. to keep them alive?
As a biologist, I think this is the really interesting question.
Gail Mackiernan
Colesville
> On 05/02/2024 12:14 PM EDT JAMES SPEICHER <jugornought...> wrote:
>
>
> There is no mystery to the decline of Bobwhites.
>
> 1. Habit loss
>
> 2. Changing ag practices, i.e. the decline of small and subsequent rise of corporate farming.
>
> All About Birds covers this thoroughly...
>
> https://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/Northern_Bobwhite/lifehistory#conservation >
> Jim Speicher
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2024, 12:03 PM Steve Long <steve.long4...> mailto:<steve.long4...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Gail,
> >
> > Thanks for the interesting population info.
> >
> > Yes, part of the population loss does not seem likely to be explained by the parameters we are considering. That is why I am wondering if some change in chemicals used in farming could play a role. But, that is pure speculation on my part.
> >
> > As for feral cats preventing any repopulation, I can only note that the area where I am living has a pretty sizeable population of cats, both free-roaming pets and live-in-the-wild. I suspect that is maintained by people who "drop off unwanted pets in the country". My mother used to have one or two show up at this house, and she would promptly adopt them. Others that I see occasionally are shy of humans, and probably subsist entirely by hunting. A local farmer used to have a colony in his barn, plus one special one that rode around in his tractor and liked to eat raw corn off the cob. My mother once took a stray over to that farmer, and he kept it in his barn for a few days to acclimate, then let it loose. It promptly disappeared, and showed up at this house 2 days later, about 1-2 miles distant (and my mother just adopted it, after that). So, my impression is that we have plenty of cats within the range of habitat where I am still hearing quail calling.
> >
> > Regarding farm fields that are left fallow being overgrown by wild pear trees: Yes, that is a big issue around here. It is being addressed by land management that recovers fields by brush-hogging and then maintains them with very infrequent mowing and/or controlled burning. So, that definitely does enhance the habitat suitability for quail around here. The owner is doing that specifically to enhance the habitat, and also releases game birds for hunting, which he leases the rights to do. So, it is mixed bag of + and -.
> >
> > Steve Long, Oxford
> >
> > On 5/2/2024 11:11 AM, Gail Mackiernan wrote:
> >
> > > In the 1970s we had Bobwhite on my mother’s 2-acre property adjacent to Sligo Creek Park in Silver Spring. I recall seeing a covey in its circle/head’s out position on our driveway on a cold winter’s day, when the asphalt was warmer than the ground. They disappeared in the terrible winter of 1975-76, when the Bay froze over and we lost almost all our Carolina Wrens.
> > >
> > > I did the MD Breeding Bird Atlas in the 1980s and Bobwhite were found in Upper Northwest Branch Park, where they persisted into the early 1990s in the vicinity of the old Trolley Museum. Last ones I saw were in 1992. The once extensive field habitat there, unfortunately, has become almost completely overgrown with Bradford Pear and invasive brambles, due to lack of (IMHO) appropriate management by the MoCo Parks Department.
> > >
> > > Still cannot understand why Bobwhite disappeared from areas where habitat has not changed much - they were everywhere at Lilypons into the 1990s and then, just melted away, despite no change in management of the area.
> > >
> > > Gail Mackiernan
> > > Colesville
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On May 2, 2024, at 10:18 AM, Steve Long <steve.long4...> mailto:<steve.long4...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > When I was a kid (VERY long ago), quail were common in that area, as indicated by hearing their calls.
> > > >
> > > > I am not sure exactly why they vanished. Obviously, the habitat was drastically changed by subdivision housing and other construction. And the introduction of dogs and cats in large numbers were predators, as well as the large amount of automobile traffic. Also, farming introduced a lot of chemicals during that time period.
> > > >
> > > > Even where I live now, quail are not very common, although I do hear their calls daily and have sometimes seen individuals and occasionally coveys. They do get introduced here for hunting purposes, so there is still some pressure from that, but a lot of the farmland has been taken out of production and allowed to go wild. It is not certain if the natural population around here was ever completely destroyed, so it is not clear whether the current population is totally reliant on introductions, or would be self sustaining without hunting pressure.
> > > >
> > > > In contrast, turkeys and pheasants are also released around here, and the pheasants do not last long. But the turnkeys have succeeded in reproducing a self-sustaining population, even with hunting. I see flocks with young every year.
> > > >
> > > > So, with Rock Creek and some open space around the College Park area, I am wondering if some self-sustaining repopulation of quail is possible, there, now.
> > > >
> > > > Steve Long, Oxford
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 5/1/2024 2:49 PM, JAMES SPEICHER wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A co-workers sons raised Bobwhites as some kind of Scouting or other project, so I think this isn't that uncommon even in suburbia.
> > > > >
> > > > > They contacted me to suggest a country location to release them when grown. We did that and I'm sure the local foxes were grateful.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim Speicher
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, May 1, 2024, 2:27 PM Jack Saba <jlsaba001...> mailto:<jlsaba001...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This looks like a Northern Bobwhite, not a Coturnix quail as far as I
> > > > > > can tell. I hadn't realized anyone raised (or released) any game birds
> > > > > > in the College Park/Berwyn Heights/Greenbelt area.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 5/1/24 10:14, Rick Borchelt wrote:
> > > > > > > Yes, more likely to see coturnix quail released in the 'burbs around
> > > > > > > College Park. They show up in my yard occasionally, to the delight of
> > > > > > > the local red fox.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, May 1, 2024 at 9:23 AM Jack Saba <jlsaba001...> mailto:<jlsaba001...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is a female N Bobwhite in my yard. Pretty much has to be a
> > > > > > > released bird, but I'm in the middle of a suburban area (Berwyn
> > > > > > > Heights). Can't see why anyone would be releasing bobwhites around
> > > > > > > here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Totally unexpected yard bird.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Jack Saba
> > > > > > > <jlsaba001...> mailto:<jlsaba001...> > > > > > > > Berwyn Heights, P.G. County, Md.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > > > > > > Google Group 'Maryland & DC Birding'.
> > > > > > > To view group guidelines or change email preferences, visit this
> > > > > > > group on the web at http://www.mdbirding.com > > > > > > > Unfamiliar with a hotspot mentioned on this list? Quickly locate
> > > > > > > it here - http://www.mdbirding.com/hotspot.html > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > > > > > > Groups "Maryland & DC Birding" group.
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > > > > > > send an email to mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> mailto:mdbirding%<2Bunsubscribe...> > > > > > > > <mailto:mdbirding%<2Bunsubscribe...>mailto:mdbirding%<252Bunsubscribe...>.
> > > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/<80c372d9-22ce-496d-9f39-f2f15c8b5449...> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Rick Borchelt
> > > > > > > College Park, MD
> > > > > > > preferred personal email: rborchelt |AT| gmail |DOT| com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://leplog.wordpress.com > > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Jack Saba
> > > > > > <jlsaba001...> mailto:<jlsaba001...> > > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group 'Maryland & DC Birding'.
> > > > > > To view group guidelines or change email preferences, visit this group on the web at http://www.mdbirding.com > > > > > > Unfamiliar with a hotspot mentioned on this list? Quickly locate it here - http://www.mdbirding.com/hotspot.html > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Maryland & DC Birding" group.
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> mailto:mdbirding%<2Bunsubscribe...> > > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/<7700c6b3-fe38-4b04-a5ca-3ac0118281e1...> > > > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group 'Maryland & DC Birding'.
> > > > > To view group guidelines or change email preferences, visit this group on the web at http://www.mdbirding.com > > > > > Unfamiliar with a hotspot mentioned on this list? Quickly locate it here - http://www.mdbirding.com/hotspot.html > > > > > ---
> > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Maryland & DC Birding" group.
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> mailto:mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> > > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/CAAaQ%3DiZ6wv6hQx1qJgu-ZZPHUxBDD1%3DQ_-9%<3DiXedHdB2Tf-ERg...>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/CAAaQ%3DiZ6wv6hQx1qJgu-ZZPHUxBDD1%3DQ_-9%<3DiXedHdB2Tf-ERg...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer.
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group 'Maryland & DC Birding'.
> > > > To view group guidelines or change email preferences, visit this group on the web at http://www.mdbirding.com > > > > Unfamiliar with a hotspot mentioned on this list? Quickly locate it here - http://www.mdbirding.com/hotspot.html > > > > ---
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Maryland & DC Birding" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> mailto:mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/<f4016b9c-5517-410f-b383-aa2677a9a814...>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/<f4016b9c-5517-410f-b383-aa2677a9a814...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group 'Maryland & DC Birding'.
> > To view group guidelines or change email preferences, visit this group on the web at http://www.mdbirding.com > > Unfamiliar with a hotspot mentioned on this list? Quickly locate it here - http://www.mdbirding.com/hotspot.html > > ---
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Maryland & DC Birding" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> mailto:mdbirding+<unsubscribe...> > > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/<9481259a-a135-46eb-9754-f297ad91dfd2...>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/<9481259a-a135-46eb-9754-f297ad91dfd2...>?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer.
> >
>
--
-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group 'Maryland & DC Birding'.
To view group guidelines or change email preferences, visit this group on the web at http://www.mdbirding.com Unfamiliar with a hotspot mentioned on this list? Quickly locate it here - http://www.mdbirding.com/hotspot.html ---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Maryland & DC Birding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdbirding+<unsubscribe...>
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdbirding/<253115133.2495897.1714669487022...>
