Date: 3/13/21 6:09 pm
From: Chuck Stebelton <cstebelton...>
Subject: [wisb] Re: UNSUBSCRIBE
On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 6:06 PM Hephziabah Beulah <hephziabahb...>
wrote:
> > You got my blood boiling and my heart pumping and I have been silent too
> > long. Well said Brian and I am in 100% agreement.
> >
> > I've seen bird banding with the River edge group and at the Zoo. I
> > observed birds trapped in a net trying to free themselves, taken out
> > carefully, (not always cuz some are trapped into the net deep) placed in
> a
> > sack that gets tied at the top and placed off to the side until it's time
> > for it to go through the testing to which the bird is stuffed into a
> toliet
> > paper roll head first and placed on a scale for weight. In the meantime
> as
> > the wings are looked at for age, wear and tear, a band is then chosen to
> > put on it's leg for the rest of it's life. What does the bird do when it
> is
> > in the nest with babies, that chunk of metal has got to be uncomfortable.
> > Plus, now the bird has to adjust it's flying due to the handcuff on it.
> > Okay, if the bird does not respond to a release from all the trauma it
> > experienced, there is a box with a warmer inside a glove to which the
> > bird is placed upon and the box is closed. I have seen both a joyful
> > release and birds that have perished, sick!!! A Free bird trapped in a
> net
> > to put a stupid band on it ruins it's Free Spirit. Has anyone followed it
> > to see if it continues to sing. In my strong opinion, it is cruel
> trapping
> > a free bird into a net and Yes, banding is OVERDONE!!! It needs to stop!
> I
> > agree we have enough data, we've done radar chips in the back of birds
> > (Nexrad) to follow them from here to over the ocean, etc. We learn from
> > nature and technology is overrated and ruining the earth.
> >
> > (I request you do not back channel me about this text because I will
> > exploit you)
> >
> > Hep
> > Brookfield, WI
> >
> > I now know why it came out as gibberish. Thank you.
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Brian <courthousehollow...>
> > Date: 3/12/21 2:41 PM (GMT-06:00)
> > To:
> > Cc: wisbirdn <wisbirdn...>
> > Subject: [wisb] Re: Reporting nest sites
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> > First off, this is LONG and a bit of a rant, so don���t read this if that
> > bothers you. Before posting I reread the WisBird rules, and yes, I���d be
> > ok
> > with my mother reading this ���� But my ultimate goal is to get people
> > thinking so that birds can thrive.
> >
> > I'm wondering if there's a pink elephant in the room in this
> conversation?
> > Are all banding ���studies��� self-justifying? I have a question for the
> > forum
> > if people would be so kind. I'm curious if anyone could summarize for me
> > how most of the bird banding that is done is anything but HARASSMENT to
> > them? I am honestly sending this out of genuine curiosity, have no
> > mal-intentions, and am not being derogatory towards anyone's interest in
> > banding. I really do want to understand.
> >
> > I've been birding for 15 years or so now and in my quest to wrap my head
> > around banding: I have helped with bird banding multiple times over
> > multiple years for grad students in the UW system and elsewhere, read
> many,
> > many articles by professionals, USGS, as well as lay folks perspectives
> via
> > articles and on forums, yet I could only come up with 4 examples of how
> > banding could ACTUALLY benefit birds.
> >
> > The 1st, is using banding for translocating, ex. to determine which males
> > are which in order to move some of the younger ones in the interest of
> > populating other areas due to habitat loss, etc. The 2nd, involves
> > endangered species or soon to be endangered, ex. using banding for the
> > purpose of knowing who���s who, where they go, how many successfully
> > fledge,
> > etc. The 3rd, is to assist with game bird hunting regulations. The 4th,
> is
> > determining survival rates after oil spills or for toxicology in general.
> > But
> > all 4 examples don't seem to justify the majority of banding.
> >
> > With the exception of those uses, every example I've ever seen/heard as
> to
> > the "benefits" of what we have learned/learn from banding could be
> > distilled down to "satisfying human curiosity" or worse, giving humans
> > doing these projects "something fun to do" with a carte blanche
> > psychological safety net, say, when they stuff a passerine headfirst
> into a
> > pill bottle to weigh them, that, "I'm doing this to help birds!" Some
> > examples of what I've come across of how banding "helps" birds are:
> > learning that certain birds move here or there in their lifetimes, fly in
> > one stretch over the gulf, live for X amount of years, territorial
> > behavior, territory size and fidelity, mate fidelity, reproductive
> behavior
> > (which bird builds the nest or feeds the young and how often), etc.
> Again,
> > satisfying human curiosity....
> >
> > To me, learning that a bird uses this or that summer/winter site, with
> the
> > exception of not destroying existing habitats (...but, really, where a
> few
> > recaptured birds go isn't much help to the THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of
> > others of that species that go elsewhere), is more or less irrelevant to
> > conservation efforts in 2021. We've known for 60 years minimum that birds
> > need habitat in general and they generally need most varieties of
> habitat.
> > So, in my mind, learning a certain Warbler passing through Wisconsin (or
> > anywhere) winters in X particular patch of forest in Venezuela is
> > questionable conservation at best, and most likely, just
> > harassment/wasteful. Perhaps it could generate local interest during
> > fundraising, but so could MANY other things. And wouldn't birds be BETTER
> > served by using those funds for protecting/acquiring as much quality
> > habitat with as much habitat diversity as possible?
> >
> > It appears scientists need to be reminded that in their vigor and
> eagerness
> > for "data", publications, career cache, tenure, job security, a raise,
> etc,
> > that they might be forgetting to consider just how "essential" an
> invasive
> > study (banding) is to the population���s (or individual���s) future
> > survival,
> > short and long term. And that needs to be asked for EVERY "study" using
> > bands/transmitters. The problem is... it appears to rarely be asked.
> > "Banding is good", is the inculcated mantra....and "the more the better"!
> >
> > I can't help but think that most efforts by concerned birders, especially
> > banding, are beating a dead horse, or worse, diluting resources for
> > conservation that could be better spent by giving birds a greater chance
> at
> > living LIFE. Knowing any of the aforementioned things we learn from
> banding
> > (aside from my first 4 examples) seems a stretch that it���s helping
> birds
> > any. It's been long established that birds decline without habitat in
> which
> > they can thrive, and we know enough (and have known enough for a LONG
> time)
> > to assist most of them with that. Banding just seems like a bizarre thing
> > to do to another creature so we can "learn" about them. An antiquated and
> > insensitive holdover that appears to be kept around because "it's what we
> > do". I would guess eBird provides FAR more useful data without harassing
> > the birds (with the exception of a few knuckleheads ���gathering��� data
> > for
> > eBird).
> >
> > But what COULD benefit birds, and benefit them in a BIG way, is if
> everyone
> > who has ever banded (or many other data collection methods) took ALL the
> > costs over the years associated with such efforts (gas, equipment, time,
> > funding/grants, etc, etc) and pooled those resources to buy/restore
> habitat
> > globally; critical areas being of 1st concern. Birds, and Nature in
> > general, would be FAR better off than the "value" of the reams of data
> that
> > was/is/will be collected or the costs of the tremendous resources used
> > worldwide to further such endeavors.
> >
> > Essentially, I���m wondering if our efforts are truly making any
> difference
> > or if we're just swimming in interesting but ultimately useless data
> about
> > birds.
> >
> > Any feedback contrary to my view is much appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Brian Pierce, Green Bay, Brown County
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 6:30 PM Bill Stout <stoutw...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Tom,
> > > I decided to forward my email to you to the entire group because I
> > believe
> > > that a good number of people do not understand the perspective of a
> > > researcher. In fact, some even may be considered hypocritical (e.g.,
> > > Madison Eagle Nest Watch seems to depend on volunteers to REPORT and
> > > MONITOR eagle NEST LOCATIONS for them, but they are dead set against
> > anyone
> > > reporting nests to anyone else). I have read several other viewpoints
> > that
> > > also seem one-sided or perhaps uninformed. It is certainly not my
> intent
> > > here to offend anyone; however, I am not so naive as to think that this
> > > won't happen. Nevertheless, it is not my intent.
> > >
> > > Most Sincerely,
> > > Bill Stout
> > > Ashippun, USA
> > >
> > > My email to Tom on Wednesday in response to his post:
> > >
> > > Thanks for your insights, Tom, as I greatly appreciate them. I just
> > wanted
> > > you to know that I am very conservative in my work when it comes to
> > > alerting others of nest sights. I do not list locations such as on
> eBird
> > or
> > > report locations to anyone. However, as an educator, if someone is very
> > > interested in the birds or if a nest is in the immediate vicinity of
> > their
> > > home, I work to provide them with a "one of a kind" educational
> > experience.
> > >
> > > Last year I did not accommodate the general public and followed the
> North
> > > American Bird Banding Council recommendations for bird banding in the
> > time
> > > of a COVID-19 pandemic (with the exception of one of the fist Great
> > Horned
> > > Owl sites as it was before recommendations were out). This year will be
> > > more complicated as we try to move back to a new normal during this
> time.
> > > Nevertheless, I will be very cautious.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for your post.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Bill Stout
> > > Ashippun, USA
> > >
> > > William E. Stout
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Bill Stout <stoutw...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 12:58 PM
> > > To: <sykes...> <sykes...>
> > > Subject: Re: [wisb] Reporting nest sites
> > >
> > > Thanks for your insights, Tom, as I greatly appreciate them. I just
> > wanted
> > > you to know that I am very conservative in my work when it comes to
> > > alerting others of nest sights. I do not list locations such as eBird
> or
> > > report locations to anyone. However, as an educator, if someone is very
> > > interested in the birds or if a nest is in the immediate vicinity of
> > their
> > > home, I work to provide them with a "one of a kind" educational
> > experience.
> > >
> > > Last year I did not accommodate the general public and followed the
> North
> > > American Bird Banding Council recommendations for bird banding in the
> > time
> > > of a COVID-19 pandemic (with the exception of one of the fist Great
> > Horned
> > > Owl sites as it was before recommendations were out). This year will be
> > > more complicated as we try to move back to a new normal during this
> time.
> > > Nevertheless, I will be very cautious.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for your post.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Bill Stout
> > > Ashippun, USA
> > >
> > > William E. Stout
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: <wisbirdn-bounce...> <wisbirdn-bounce...> on
> > > behalf of Tom Sykes <sykes...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2021 10:43 AM
> > > To: Wisbirdn <wisbirdn...>
> > > Subject: [wisb] Reporting nest sites
> > >
> > > From time to time the issue of reporting bird nests appears on the
> list.
> > > And while there is some disagreement about whether or not a nest site
> is
> > or
> > > is not being disturbed by human presence, I would direct you to both
> the
> > > ABA Birding Ethics and WSO Birding Ethics sites as a reminder for those
> > > wondering about the ethics of reporting a nest site. WISBIRDN
> subscribes
> > to
> > > following both.
> > >
> > > https://wsobirds.org/about-wso/code-of-ethics
> > >
> > > https://www.aba.org/aba-code-of-birding-ethics/
> > >
> > > It is true that many reports of nesting raptors appear on eBird as well
> > as
> > > many other listservs and Facebook pages. Citizen Science is a great
> tool
> > > but it is also used by a few unethical people. People who don���t care
> > about
> > > disturbing birds in order to get ���the perfect shot���, or, people who
> > would
> > > traffic in birds. Even curious onlookers. Fortunately, these people are
> > in
> > > a minority. But they are out there.
> > >
> > > It���s also one thing for one or two people to observe a nest but
> > consider a
> > > report in an urban area when many people arrive at the same time - as
> > with
> > > the eagle nest recently reported in Walworth city. Birds may be
> > > intimidated. Or not. The problem is, it���s usually too late to reverse
> > the
> > > damage when it���s found to be they are disturbed.
> > >
> > > Some years ago an eagle nest was reported in Horicon Marsh. Fish and
> > > Wildlife staff closed off the immediate area although the nest could be
> > > observed at some distance. The eagles were successful. There have been
> > > eagle nests up and down the Fox River near Appleton easily seen by
> anyone
> > > who wishes to observe at a safe distance. The same with many lakes in
> the
> > > northern part of the state.
> > >
> > > I happened to volunteer at a wildlife refuge in Florida for five months
> > > where a Bald Eagle had set up a nest and produced young. Although the
> > nest
> > > was quite high, we roped off the area to prevent disturbing the nest
> > site.
> > > These birds were quite skittish whenever anyone approached the base of
> > the
> > > tree. A local member of the Audubon Society objected claiming the birds
> > > were not at all disturbed and was subsequently banned from the refuge
> > when
> > > he ignored the roped off area and had gone so far as to fly a drone
> > toward
> > > the nest to get video. And this was the local president of an Audubon
> > > chapter!
> > >
> > > It all boils down to using common sense and taking into consideration
> the
> > > particular situation. Just because one raptor nest doesn���t appear to
> be
> > > troubled by human activity, doesn���t necessarily apply to another
> raptor
> > > nest. Great care should be taken when reporting a sighting. If in
> doubt,
> > > don���t report.
> > >
> > > Tom Sykes
> > > Wisbirdn List Owner
> > > <sykes...>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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