Date: 2/22/21 9:41 am
From: Harry LeGrand (via carolinabirds Mailing List) <carolinabirds...>
Subject: Re: Whats the story with reporting Egyptian Goose?
Mute Swan brings up an interesting case. The NC BRC a few decades ago
voted to Accept the species to the state list based on the belief that
individuals from the feral, widespread, countable, breeding population in
the Delmarva Peninsula area were straying or migrating rarely to the
northern coast of NC -- such as that single bird seen for a short time now
and then at impoundments at Pea Island, which were definitely not breeding
there or from a resident population in the area. Of course, without bands,
there was no way to be sure WHERE they came from or were born.

Thus, Mute Swan was put on the Official List as being a "legit" stray to
the northeastern part of the state. In recent years, the feral population
in the Delmarva region has been "removed" -- I'll put it that way -- for
its impacts to natural resources. And, such strays to the Outer Banks have
declined, probably as a result. The intent was for folks to add Mute Swan
to their state list or year list ONLY if and when seen along or near the
northern coast. However, we know that over the last 50 or more years,
there are scattered breeding feral populations at lakes and ponds around
the state, such as Airlie Garnes near Wilmington and many cities inland.
These should NOT be counted on your lists, but that is my personal opinion,
and is un-enforceable anyway! Once a committee puts a feral species on an
official bird list, anything goes (unfortunately)!

The issue of Mute Swan shows that adding ANY exotic species of waterfowl to
a state list can "get out of hand" -- once accepted to the state list for
ONE geographic spot in the state -- let's say Egyptian Goose ONLY at Lake
Julian -- people will start counting it on their lists for anywhere in the
state. Sure, what you add to your various lists is your own choosing,
except when putting totals on websites like the ABA (American Birding
Association), where you do want to "play by the same rules" as other folks.

This is just one example of the headaches that records committee members
deal with reviewing waterfowl species such as Trumpeter Swan, Mottled Duck,
White-cheeked Pintail, etc. -- all of which have now been added to the
Official/Definitive List for NC. We/they accepted Barnacle Goose to the
Official List a few years ago based on photos of a bird with wild Canada
Geese at Lake Mattamuskeet. But, the BRC has not accepted Barnacle Goose
records far inland, such as at a park in Greensboro. So -- just because a
waterfowl species is now on the Official List does mean *not *all reports
in the state are accepted or should be counted on personal lists.

Harry LeGrand

On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 9:50 AM Nate Dias <carolinabirds...> wrote:

> By the same yardstick, Mute Swan would not count unless there has been a
> self-sustaining/expanding population in NC for 10+ years.
> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
> --
> <;!!OToaGQ!7vq4Y8UYXZJ5tjtHmNVNs39dMTLez8nC8RR4eiixCLK0Pg_IIxdWytR2Oi3LBxXy0as$>
> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
> shot." -- Bror Blixen
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 9:13 AM Harry LeGrand <carolinabirds...>
> wrote:
>> To add a few things to what Dwayne said -- as I wanted to hear from one
>> of the NC eBird review staff first (and he review western NC reports) --
>> Egyptian Goose is NOT on the NC state bird list, in any category:
>> Birds of North Carolina (
>> <;!!OToaGQ!6jEZ9Rcblaq5xFXgrkKqxKpdo78g-YJdeSojhLeLNWE6kq-4i6YBcO1WgmmAKzCzYc8$>
>> Thus, the species cannot be counted on a Big Year list -- sorry, Steve,
>> but that knocks your 2020 Big Year back from 359 to 358 -- still way ahead
>> of any other such list.
>> Now, looking at the bottom of that list, Definitive, Point 5:
>> 1. A species or recognized subspecies from a non-native, feral or
>> exotic population that is self-sustaining or expanding for a period of 10
>> or more years.
>> It can be argued that the NC Bird Records Committee can, if it chooses to
>> do so, vote on a species like Egyptian Goose, *if it has a
>> self-sustaining population at Lake Julian for a period of 10 or more years*
>> -- and add it to the state list if it receives enough votes to add.
>> However, that population is not expanding, and that may be a reason also
>> that it has not been brought up for a vote for the NC list. Yes, this
>> goose species can be easily seen at that lake, and has been for a good
>> handful of years. But, the same can certainly be said for some local
>> populations of Muscovy Ducks, Greylag Geese, and a few other waterfowl --
>> including some inland populations of Mute Swans that stay at one lake.
>> I am a non-voting member of the NC BRC, but have been in the past and was
>> a Chair in the past. I don't know how others would vote on Egyptian Goose
>> or a similar feral waterfowl species to add to the state list, but I do
>> know how I would vote, and that is "no". We could add all kinds of
>> additional species that way to the list. I personally would want to see a
>> population expand to other lakes before I cast a yes vote.
>> Several more points -- Egyptian Goose IS on the ABA Checklist; I just
>> checked the website and list. However, that would apply ONLY to whichever
>> part of whichever state it is considered countable -- probably locally in
>> parts of FL or CA. But, that does not mean it is countable anywhere in the
>> US and Canada where seen. Sadly, the checklist doesn't say WHERE in the
>> region it is countable, though maybe a detailed list somewhere has this
>> important information.
>> Lastly, addressing the eBird search map, to which Guy refers -- yes, I
>> see the purple rectangles for Egyptian Goose for several places in eastern
>> TN and northern GA, and not for NC. So, I support the NC decision to not
>> accept the species, as it is not on the NC state list; maybe the species IS
>> listed on the TN and GA state lists -- I don't know. But -- it would be
>> nice to somehow make sure those many checklists with Egyptian Goose on them
>> from Lake Julian, still be available over time -- in case such potentially
>> valuable data are not completely erased.
>> Harry LeGrand
>> Raleigh
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:35 AM Dwayne Martin <carolinabirds...>
>> wrote:
>>> eBird has a set of guidelines for reviewers about where exotics should
>>> and should not be validated. At this time, Egyptian Goose is on the no
>>> validate list for NC. eBird will be coming out will a new way of dealing
>>> with exotics on lists soon hopefully.
>>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2021 at 6:27 AM Mary Erickson <carolinabirds...>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I often see them in my daily NC needs alert. Buncombe Co, Lake Julian.
>>>> Mary, Hillsborough
>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>> <;!!OToaGQ!5Dbu0rmVdq-4XmnnkIopdNtnpFDAeh1exqvxvC6u9cUZ6CtemJ67oU7PDrFAI1tnKkk$>
>>>> On Sunday, February 21, 2021, 8:38 PM, <badgerboy...> wrote:
>>>> Just curious, I have NOT seen one in NC or SC, but I noticed that ebird
>>>> reports of them in NC don't seem to show up on ebird output, but they
>>>> do
>>>> show up in ebird public output just west of here in Tennessee, and in
>>>> Georgia. Is this a decision, random chance, or is there some difference
>>>> between the sightings that I don't know about.
>>>> {{{BTW, I DID a quick web search and found the ABA article from 2014 so
>>>> please don't recommend that--it did not seem to help.}}}
>>>> Thanks, Guy McGrane, Boone NC
>>>> --
>>> Dwayne
>>> *************
>>> Dwayne Martin
>>> Hickory, NC
>>> <redxbill...>

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