Date: 10/18/19 7:09 pm
From: <clearwater...>
Subject: [obol] Re: A note on fall Kingbirds

Thanks for your compilation but I'm puzzled as to what this means. What do you infer from this?

Tropical Kingbirds can normally be separated from Western Kingbirds by visual field marks. An exception might be worn Western Kingbirds that don't show much if any white edging on their tails -- but then you would hope to see a note on the bill size, as well as general tail, back and breast color, if the observer thinks it's a Tropical Kingbird.

There are two separate questions that have come up recently here on OBOL:

1) Has there been past confusion over Couch's vs.Tropical Kingbirds?

2) Has there been past confusion over Cassin's Kingbirds vs. late fall Western Kingbirds?

We've already beaten the former dead horse well past death. The latter question might still be relevant but I don't see how it hinges upon vocalizations.


From: "Robert O'Brien" <baro...>
To: "clearwater" <clearwater...>
Cc: "Jeff Gilligan" <jeffgilligan10...>, "Oregon Birders OnLine" <obol...>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2019 6:17:05 PM
Subject: Re: [obol] Re: A note on fall Kingbirds

Well, many of the Tropical Kingbird observations have been accepted by the Oregon Birds Record Committee, which later removed TRKI from the review list.
Here are all the records available from OBRC online. I have indicated the observations that reported silent birds in bold to the right.
Previously I stated that my report of hearing the calls in Nov '86 at Nehalem Meadows was not accepted by OBRC I DID get a letter to that effect. But, as Jeff Gilligan told me decades later, it WAS indeed accepted and appears in the list below. Now there are quite a few birds reported as silent and one could perhaps
infer that the others reported the calls? Note that most of the later reports did mention 'silent' .but not the earlier ones.
Of course, this is just a listing of accepted reports. The actual reports will contain the details, which could have discussed the vocalization situation.
Interestingly, the 13 Oct 1998 observation of Western Kingbird in this thread almost coincides with the 11 Oct 1998 report of a
silent Tropical on Grand Island and the 6 Nov 1982 Western in this thread coincides with the protracted observations of TRKI at Newport. (both bold italics below) The first report of TRKI in Oregon in 1970 does not appear in this listing. Perhaps Harry didn't send it in to OBRC, or perhaps OBRC did not exist way back then? It's never too late, Harry...............

OBRC Records available at [ | ]

Tropical Kingbird Tyrannus melancholicus
446-76-01 Harris Beach SP, Curry Co., 1 on 9-10 October 1976 (SS).
446-79-02 Bandon, Coos Co., 1 on 27 October 1979 (AMc).
446-81-03 Newport, Lincoln Co., 1 on 14 October 1981 (JK; photos by RK). First Verified Record First Verified Record
446-81-04 Garibaldi, Tillamook Co., 1 on 17 October 1981 (photos by VT).
446-81-05 Langlois, Curry Co., 1 on 22 October 1981 (photo by GSt).
446-82-06 Mouth of the Elk River, Curry Co., 1 on 11 June 1982.
446-82-07 Newport, Lincoln Co., 1 on 6-15 November 1982 (EH, GB, BC, RS, JK; photos by RK, OS).
446-82-08 North Bend, Coos Co., 1 on 4-7 November 1982 (AMc; photos by BG).
446-83-09 Sunset Bay SP, Coos Co., 1 on 20 October 1983 (AMc).
446-83-10 Winchester Bay, Douglas Co., 1 adult on 23 October 1983 (photos by DH, MS).
446-84-11 Pony Slough, North Bend, Coos Co., 1 on 14 September 1984.
446-84-12 Newport, Lincoln Co., 1 immature on 30 September 1984 (DI).
446-86-13 Nehalem Meadows, Tillamook Co., 2 immature birds from 4-15 November 1986 (JE; photos by TC, CM, BOB). My Photo in NAB when I heard calls
446-93-14 Cape Blanco, Curry Co., 1 bird on 16 November 1993 (photos by CD).
446-93-15 Newport, Lincoln Co., 1 bird on 7 November 1993 (JJo).
446-95-16 Hdq. Malheur NWR, Harney Co., 1 bird on 27 September 1995 (photos by AMc, DH).
446-95-17 Cape Blanco, Curry Co., 1 bird on 5 October 1995 (photos by CD).
446-96-18 Sauvie Island, Multnomah Co., 1 bird heard and seen 1-3 November 1996 (JJo, GL; photos by TJ; tape recordings by SJ). Were calls recorded?
446-96-19 Brookings, Curry Co., 1 adult on 17 October 1996 (EI).
446-97-20 Netarts, Tillamook Co., 2 birds on 26 October 1997 (CR).
446-97-21 Siletz Bay, Lincoln Co., 1 silent bird on 9 November 1997 (BoM). silent
446-97-22 North Spit Coos Bay, Coos Co. 2 silent birds 1-30 November 1997 (DLa). silent
446-97-23 Near Bandon, Coos Co., 1 bird on 6 December 1997 (DLa, RHo).
446-98-24 Cape Blanco, Curry Co., 1 bird 26 July-8 August 1998 (photos by TWa).
446-98-25 Grand Island, Yamhill Co., 1 silent bird on 11 October 1998 (RRo). silent
446-98-26 Pony Slough, Coos Co., 2 silent birds 16-19 October 1998 (DLa, TR). silent
446-98-27 Cape Blanco, Curry Co., 3 birds 8-18 November 1998 (photos by TWa).
446-99-28 Pistol River, Curry Co., 1 silent bird on 13 and 20 November 1999 (DMu). silent
446-99-29 Cape Blanco, Curry Co., 1 silent bird on 15 October 1999 (Twa). silent
446-00-30 Coos Bay, Coos Co., 1 silent bird on 21 November 2000 (DLa). silent
446-95-31 Honeyman State Park, Lane Co., 1 bird on 23 November 1995 (video by TJ). call on video?
446-01-35 Flores Lake, Curry Co., 1 silent bird on 17 November 2001 (DLa,KC) silent

On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 5:24 PM < [ mailto:<clearwater...> | <clearwater...> ] > wrote:

Considering that there's no way to ever prove what they were, OK, Jeff, you're on!

I'll bet my entire personal fortune of East German Marks, Finnish Marks, and Dutch Guilder that they were in fact Western Kingbirds. Might even throw in a few Soviet-era Rubles :-)


From: "Jeff Gilligan" < [ mailto:<jeffgilligan10...> | <jeffgilligan10...> ] >
To: "clearwater" < [ mailto:<clearwater...> | <clearwater...> ] >
Cc: "Oregon Birders OnLine" < [ mailto:<obol...> | <obol...> ] >
Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 5:19:08 PM
Subject: Re: [obol] Re: A note on fall Kingbirds

I bet that they were Tropical Kingbirds, or maybe even one was a Cassin’s.
Jeff Gilligan


On Oct 14, 2019, at 4:55 PM, [ mailto:<clearwater...> | <clearwater...> ] wrote:

Roy makes a good point regarding observer expectations.

However the three mid/late Oct and early Nov reports of Western Kingbirds mentioned in BOGR were from 13 Oct 1998 , 18 Oct 1985 , and 6 Nov 1982. So all of these were a dozen or more years after Harry Nehls found that Tropical Kingbird in 1970, back when Nixon was still the one. So one hopes that Oregon birders would have considered TRKI as a possibility for those birds.

Joel Geier
Greater Tampico, Benton County


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