Date: 10/4/19 12:26 pm
From: Betsy Kane (via carolinabirds Mailing List) <carolinabirds...>
Subject: Re: N Carolina Birder is featured guest on podcasty
There's a gentle satisfaction in staying put and letting the birds, mostly,
come to you. One example, when I lived in a downtown Raleigh apartment for
11 years and got much pleasure from slowly enlarging my list of migrants
that came to its leafy, 3-acre courtyard full of mature hardwoods (some
over 150 years old, as I counted when one gigantic basswood finally fell).

Each spring as I worked in my home office, with the window open to the
leafy park between brick and concrete blocks, my ears would perk to
something new and different. I had blackpoll warblers every year,
black-and-white warblers, redstarts, gray-cheeked thrush, magnolia warbler,
sometimes ovenbirds well into summer, .. saw "uncle" towhees helping raise
their siblings or nephews, saw my first Cooper's hawk as it plucked a blind
house finch out of the air like a canapé off a party tray. Chimney swifts
by the thousands roosted each fall in the massive old coal stack of the
central heating plant -- saw a Cooper's hawk choose one of those swifts,
most evenings. My neighbors, young people who gathered in the evening to
enjoy the courtyard with beer and conversation, reported to me that "sugar
gliders" were present in the trees after dark -- flying squirrels, of
course.

It didn't hurt my enjoyment to know that the apartment dweller's footprint
is less and the transportation efficiency greater from living in an urban
location. I'm not crowing, and there were drawbacks to urban apartment
living (especially old-apartment living), but that wasn't among them.

It was a delight for me to track the birds there, and I proudly posted some
of my modest list from downtown Raleigh to this forum at the time. Sadly,
there were negative Neds (there was never a Nellie) who would write
sarcastically to me off-list, as if it might give them pleasure to
denigrate my pleasure. And I seem to recall that one or two darkly
ambiguous "congratulatory" emails even made it onto the reply-all circuit.

Everyone has to find their own balance of consumption and conservation, and
everyone's balance will be somewhat different from all the rest. Let's all
be mindful of our own balance, I urge.

Not shaming anyone; rather, wishing to provide encouragement to those who
(from choice, mobility limitations, or modest means) stay put and bird --

Betsy Kane
Washington, N.C.

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 2:26 PM Peter Quadarella <carolinabirds...>
wrote:

> I have received some private supportive comments that clearly don't want
> to continue this disagreement in public so I too will let it drop, except
> to say I disagree with much of what you have said including the distinction
> between going to see new birds and writing them in a list. You can feel
> free to berate me and others in public and private as you have done in the
> past and I will let it go.
>
> Peter Quadarella
> Weddington, NC
>
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 1:56 PM Nate Dias <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>
>> Peter,
>>
>> You are engaging in a bit of a straw-man argument and seem to be
>> confusing LISTING and BIRDING. They are not the same thing.
>>
>> I said "listing for the sake of listing and hyper-competitive birding are
>> not exactly positive endeavors". This was not shaming anyone for
>> birding. Obsessive listing perhaps, but not birding.
>>
>> You seem to be saying "the more people into listing/twitching, the better
>> for conservation". I am skeptical of that contention. If it were true, I
>> would be seeing them at public input meetings, council meetings, writing
>> letters to the editor and Op-Eds, making public comments on draft
>> proposals, etc. which is not the case. The few birders I see doing those
>> things are almost never avid twitchers. Long-time birders and
>> conservationists I know in other states report similar observations. And
>> getting more people into twitching in recent years certainly hasn't
>> translated to the voting booth in terms of conservation!
>>
>> Twitching goals get people interested in numbers and ticks, but I am not
>> convinced getting people into twitching translates into bird conservation
>> ACTIONS on a significant scale. But listing obsession does make people
>> fabricate sightings, trespass, trample habitat, flush/disturb birds, and a
>> host of other ill effects - all carbon footprint issues aside.
>>
>> I think it would be much better when introducing beginners to birding to
>> put less emphasis on twitching/listing and more on fieldcraft, bird
>> behavior, and enjoying birds for their own sake. Not to make some kind of
>> competitive numbers game out of it. If someone isn't attracted to birding
>> on its own merits (but need some kind of listing 'hook'), then maybe they
>> aren't inclined towards conservation in the first place. And from
>> experience, I know children crave lessons on things like fieldcraft,
>> tracking, and animal behavior. I claim those would be more effective
>> "hooks" for young people than twitching - which can lead to birding burnout.
>>
>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 11:38 AM Peter Quadarella <pvquad...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps we should all stay home and give up this hobby altogether? This
>>> short-sighted view ignores the fact that these sorts of goals creates
>>> excitement and interest and in the long run gets more people interested in
>>> and acting towards conservation. The impact of getting more people caring
>>> about birds for the rest of their lives far outweighs some trips someone
>>> takes in the car to see them.
>>>
>>> Besides, I thought this was a birding forum, not a conservation forum.
>>> I know there is a deep connection, but if we are to be shamed for actually
>>> birding, then I misunderstood the whole point of subscribing.
>>>
>>> Peter Quadarella
>>> Weddington, NC
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 10:39 AM Nate Dias <carolinabirds...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You make good points regarding carbon footprints and "travel shaming"
>>>> Steve.
>>>>
>>>> But I think the truth may be somewhere in the middle of your position
>>>> and Mike's. I think listing for the sake of listing and hyper-competitive
>>>> birding are not exactly positive endeavors and they deserve some social
>>>> pushback. I regret being such a gung-ho lister earlier in my life and am
>>>> really glad to be back into the joy of birding for its own sake and not
>>>> giving a damn about listing any more.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest another shaming avenue for folks - giving birders heck who
>>>> keep their swift-capable chimneys capped and inaccessible. If birders
>>>> won't do the right thing on that topic, who will?
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the subject of this thread: I don't agree with Edward's
>>>> characterization of "a quest to see 50% of the species in each of the lower
>>>> 48 U.S. states and D.C." as an "amazing goal".
>>>>
>>>> Terms that leap to my mind about a quest like that are ones like
>>>> ‘pointless’, ‘arbitrary and insipid’, ‘list-obsessed’ and so forth. A
>>>> better quest might be volunteering on conservation projects in each of the
>>>> Lower 48 states and DC. Now that would be an amazing goal.
>>>>
>>>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.flickr.com_photos_offshorebirder2_&d=DwMFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=do23ERMsHtnXpII0PQD75_cOWmugsdEcLN73SpYeqQo&s=FbU1NnRJCsHz__QTzTB1FJ4NgscLu-p0sZQmLiZipac&e=>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
>>>> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
>>>> shot." -- Bror Blixen
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 9:49 AM "Shultz, Steven" <carolinabirds...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But where does the electricity come from to power that EV? Four
>>>>> words: coal, natural gas, nuclear.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> EVs are great for a number of reasons, but are not necessarily
>>>>> “clean”. It just moves the pollution upstream and out of sight. Sort of
>>>>> like getting the meat wrapped up at the grocery instead of killing the
>>>>> cow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, wind and solar are nice (although they have environmental issues
>>>>> of their own). But for, example, solar to replace coal, we would need to
>>>>> cover an area of the United States equal to about the eastern third of the
>>>>> country with solar panels (the power density of coal is so much higher than
>>>>> solar). And I don’t think we really want to replace all that space with
>>>>> panels.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So it’s not simple. And it’s not just about travel. All power
>>>>> generation pollutes or replaces land with infrastructure. Solar might be
>>>>> the cleanest, but it only works during the day, and is very inefficient
>>>>> compared to other sources. Nuclear is probably the next least harmful, but
>>>>> all one has to say is Chernobyl and that discussion screeches to a halt.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s not easy. And in about 100 years the current discussion won’t
>>>>> matter (coal, natural gas and oil are finite and expected to essentially
>>>>> run out in a blink of time from a geological perspective). Yes, we will be
>>>>> left with the CO2 problems from the present, but will need to still find a
>>>>> way to create the energy needed for civilization (which increases at a
>>>>> significant rate).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don’t get me wrong, I support clean power and the push for
>>>>> environmentally friendly solutions, but pragmatically, publically outing a
>>>>> person for choosing to burn a few gallons of gasoline (or the equivalent in
>>>>> generated electricity) isn’t helping. It’s preaching to the choir.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So let’s please stop with the “travel shaming” and “lifestyle shaming”
>>>>> on the mailing list. If you are using the power to type the message, you
>>>>> are using electricity and creating associated environmental impacts. Maybe
>>>>> a few of us are off the grid and producing power with pico-hydro stations,
>>>>> but for the most part, it feels disingenuous to shame folks for driving 2
>>>>> hours while sitting in an air conditioned house.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Written from an air conditioned building (it was 100 degrees yesterday
>>>>> for crying out loud!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Shultz
>>>>>
>>>>> Apex NC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* <carolinabirds-request...> [mailto:
>>>>> <carolinabirds-request...>] *On Behalf Of *Gary Harbour
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 04, 2019 9:27 AM
>>>>> *To:* Mike Judd
>>>>> *Cc:* Edward Pullen; <carolinabirds...>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: N Carolina Birder is featured guest on podcasty
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This email is from an external source - exercise caution regarding
>>>>> links and attachments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike, Get an EV then you can 😊 about doing it. Good birding,
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2019, at 10:41 PM, Mike Judd (via carolinabirds Mailing
>>>>> List) <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wonder what his carbon footprint looks like😩.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thinking about running around to taste state & regional pies myself.
>>>>> Surely that would be meaningful, yes? My life list of pies is nearing the
>>>>> magical 700 mark👍
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Judd
>>>>>
>>>>> Formerly of Brevard
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 2, 2019, at 10:22 PM, Edward Pullen (via carolinabirds Mailing
>>>>> List) <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike Resch, newly relocated to N. Carolina, is the featured guest on
>>>>> the most recent episode of The Bird Banter Podcast. Mike has a quest to
>>>>> see 50% of the species in each of the lower 48 U.S. states and D.C. He is
>>>>> only 2 states from accomplishing this amazing goal, and talks about it on
>>>>> this episode.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__birdbanter.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=uYXtsEn_chXcS_uf-69L4T3LVoJ2zBjyqMxaKERJRWA&s=PeUFKXpsbnpA1d6W3UeI9DLAPVlo-vo36zpl-IQBk38&e=
>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__birdbanter.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=hEEH6gLrVrIbos5QJ2GY8ENFPHjWrmtoy13S8FxsF68&s=BmGNBcviQMJOU7Ktii9UiCGsw8A5IRMY4NCBwbe8B_g&e=>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can listent on the BIrd Banter site, or get the episode on Apple
>>>>> Podcasts, Stitcher or Spotify. Links on the signature block below.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed Pullen
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow The Bird Banter Podcast on iTunes
>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__podcasts.apple.com_us_podcast_bird-2Dbanter_id1450449001&d=DwMFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=hEEH6gLrVrIbos5QJ2GY8ENFPHjWrmtoy13S8FxsF68&s=S1KnpcYRaaCFTKMUW9harKudVrlWHW7A6XVGSKOL938&e=>
>>>>> or the podcast feed of your choice
>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__birdbanter.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=hEEH6gLrVrIbos5QJ2GY8ENFPHjWrmtoy13S8FxsF68&s=tA88K6LZo5pLhZag9pfQY1oFL6nXKf2IURHUrK8KL4g&e=>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

 
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