Date: 9/28/19 11:53 am
From: Sheila Junge (G2) <sgjsacto...>
Subject: [obol] Re: Those fall kingbirds
Josh – Thank you for this.

I'm a longtime lurker on OBOL. I subscribed due to occasional visits to
Oregon and have remained due to the opportunity to learn AND for the
sense of community. I plan to spend more time birding in Oregon in future.

This was a chance to discuss (king)bird ID issues but community not so
much. I am so dismayed at the harsh (disrespectful?) tone of some of the
comments that I am posting to OBOL for the first time.

Can't we all agree to disagree without being disagreeable.

Sheila Junge

Sacramento, CA

On 9/28/2019 7:19 AM, Josh Spice wrote:
> First and foremost, my sincere apologies to all for stepping out of
> line with name-calling. That was unnecessary and unacceptable. I seem
> to have read the two emails differently and was offended at the tone.
> That did not warrant name-calling. Swallowing my own pride here and my
> sincere apologies to all. A valuable lesson learned in my first
> experience (and year) with listservs.
> Off less importance, a second thought I had in reading some great
> replies by experienced kingbird-ers is if the the main difference
> between the two species is voice, could the 'two species' just be a
> matter of splitting instead of lumping? It'd be fun to hear more from
> those who know more about this.
> Again, I stepped out of line with my name-calling and I apologize to
> everyone for that. Let's all keep this a non-attacking place,
> hopefully always from the start of every email thread.
> Good birding to all and thanks for everyone's contributions. I, for
> one, have been grateful for this resource and the people that make it up.
> Josh
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 22:00 Wayne Weber <contopus...>
> <mailto:<contopus...>> wrote:
> Alex,
> You are probably correct that non-vocalizing Tropical and Couch’s
> Kingbirds cannot usually be distinguished from each other under
> field conditions. However, geographic distribution is a major
> factor that should be considered in making bird identifications.
> Tropical Kingbird is a species which has a well-documented pattern
> of fall occurrence along the West Coast. There are records north
> to Alaska, and there are scores of sightings every fall in coastal
> BC, Washington, Oregon, and California. On the other hand, there
> is only one confirmed record of Couch’s Kingbird on the west coast
> (in 1998 in Orange County, California). Given these facts, it is a
> certainty that fewer than 1%, if any, of the Tropical/Couch’s type
> Kingbirds seen in Oregon are actually Couch’s. Observers should
> feel safe in reporting such birds as Tropical Kingbirds, with very
> little likelihood of error.
> Your statement that non-vocalizing birds MUST be recorded as
> Tropical/Couch’s is ludicrous. Using your standards, we would have
> to report all non-vocalizing meadowlarks seen in Oregon as
> Eastern/Western, because these two are very difficult to separate.
> Please do not bother to send any more of your dogmatic and
> bluntly-worded messages about bird identification to OBOL. Many of
> us have been birding much longer than you, are well aware of the
> various pitfalls in bird identification, and do not need to be
> lectured by you on how to report things in eBird. Thank you.
> Wayne C. Weber
> Delta, BC, Canada
> <contopus...> <mailto:<contopus...>
> *From:*<obol-bounce...>
> <mailto:<obol-bounce...>
> [mailto:<obol-bounce...>
> <mailto:<obol-bounce...>] *On Behalf Of *Alex Lamoreaux
> *Sent:* Friday, September 27, 2019 4:38 PM
> *To:* Oregon Birders OnLine
> *Subject:* [obol] Re: Those fall kingbirds
> Similar to my rant on crossbills yesterday, without vocalizations
> Tropical and Couch’s Kingbirds are not identifiable under field
> conditions. Some variation in shape of the P4 on adult males, and
> other subtle in-hand features can separate them but otherwise they
> must be recorded as Tropical/Couch’s until vocals can confirm
> species. Current eBird records of this Newport bird make no
> mention of calls and the records should be changed to the dreaded
> ‘slash’.
> Tropical has shown a solid pattern of northward movement up the
> west coast in fall in recent years (and up the east coast to a
> lesser extent, with overwintering in Florida etc) but Couch’s
> Kingbird has also greatly increased its US population in the last
> 10 years and should be expected as a fall vagrant throughout the
> country. 4+ have been confirmed by vocals in the west, and many
> more in the northeast and Great Lakes.
> Alex
> Alex Lamoreaux
> 717-943-7086
> Naturalist and Senior Leader/North America Specialist for Wildside
> Nature Tours

Join us on Facebook!