Date: 9/28/19 7:20 am
From: Josh Spice <joshspice...>
Subject: [obol] Re: Those fall kingbirds
First and foremost, my sincere apologies to all for stepping out of line
with name-calling. That was unnecessary and unacceptable. I seem to have
read the two emails differently and was offended at the tone. That did not
warrant name-calling. Swallowing my own pride here and my sincere apologies
to all. A valuable lesson learned in my first experience (and year) with
listservs.

Off less importance, a second thought I had in reading some great replies
by experienced kingbird-ers is if the the main difference between the two
species is voice, could the 'two species' just be a matter of splitting
instead of lumping? It'd be fun to hear more from those who know more about
this.

Again, I stepped out of line with my name-calling and I apologize to
everyone for that. Let's all keep this a non-attacking place, hopefully
always from the start of every email thread.

Good birding to all and thanks for everyone's contributions. I, for one,
have been grateful for this resource and the people that make it up.

Josh



On Fri, Sep 27, 2019, 22:00 Wayne Weber <contopus...> wrote:

> Alex,
>
>
>
> You are probably correct that non-vocalizing Tropical and Couch’s
> Kingbirds cannot usually be distinguished from each other under field
> conditions. However, geographic distribution is a major factor that should
> be considered in making bird identifications. Tropical Kingbird is a
> species which has a well-documented pattern of fall occurrence along the
> West Coast. There are records north to Alaska, and there are scores of
> sightings every fall in coastal BC, Washington, Oregon, and California. On
> the other hand, there is only one confirmed record of Couch’s Kingbird on
> the west coast (in 1998 in Orange County, California). Given these facts,
> it is a certainty that fewer than 1%, if any, of the Tropical/Couch’s type
> Kingbirds seen in Oregon are actually Couch’s. Observers should feel safe
> in reporting such birds as Tropical Kingbirds, with very little likelihood
> of error.
>
>
>
> Your statement that non-vocalizing birds MUST be recorded as
> Tropical/Couch’s is ludicrous. Using your standards, we would have to
> report all non-vocalizing meadowlarks seen in Oregon as Eastern/Western,
> because these two are very difficult to separate.
>
>
>
> Please do not bother to send any more of your dogmatic and bluntly-worded
> messages about bird identification to OBOL. Many of us have been birding
> much longer than you, are well aware of the various pitfalls in bird
> identification, and do not need to be lectured by you on how to report
> things in eBird. Thank you.
>
>
>
> Wayne C. Weber
>
> Delta, BC, Canada
>
> <contopus...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* <obol-bounce...> [mailto:<obol-bounce...>] *On
> Behalf Of *Alex Lamoreaux
> *Sent:* Friday, September 27, 2019 4:38 PM
> *To:* Oregon Birders OnLine
> *Subject:* [obol] Re: Those fall kingbirds
>
>
>
> Similar to my rant on crossbills yesterday, without vocalizations Tropical
> and Couch’s Kingbirds are not identifiable under field conditions. Some
> variation in shape of the P4 on adult males, and other subtle in-hand
> features can separate them but otherwise they must be recorded as
> Tropical/Couch’s until vocals can confirm species. Current eBird records of
> this Newport bird make no mention of calls and the records should be
> changed to the dreaded ‘slash’.
>
>
>
> Tropical has shown a solid pattern of northward movement up the west coast
> in fall in recent years (and up the east coast to a lesser extent, with
> overwintering in Florida etc) but Couch’s Kingbird has also greatly
> increased its US population in the last 10 years and should be expected as
> a fall vagrant throughout the country. 4+ have been confirmed by vocals in
> the west, and many more in the northeast and Great Lakes.
>
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> Alex Lamoreaux
>
> 717-943-7086
>
> Naturalist and Senior Leader/North America Specialist for Wildside Nature
> Tours
> https://wildsidenaturetours.com/team-member/alex-lamoreaux/
>

 
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