Date: 7/31/19 2:33 am
From: larspernorgren <larspernorgren...>
Subject: [obol] Re: Hybrid zone
The titmice in Adel are certainly a part of a continuous population stretching south into their heartland. And the most northerly detection l am aware of is Table Rock, a short distance east of Silver Lake. I think that detection was out of the breeding season, leading some to attribute it to winter wandering. But l suspect no skilled observer has visited that site in breeding season, nor next to all of the habitat south and east of there as described by Kevin.       Blue Jays and Mountain Chickadees have a well documented prediliction for wandering hundreds of miles from their nesting area in winter. Is there any evidence at all that Juniper Titmice ever do this? A handful of CBCs  and BBSs provide intriguing hints, but are basically anecdotal. Other associates of the pinon/juniper pygmy forests of the North American west are conspicuously absent in Oregon. Pinon pine shows up along Hwy 395 a short distance north of Reno. It is present in south central Idaho, as is Scott's Oriole( as a breeder, a vagrant in Oregon). The only confirmed breeding record for Plumbeous Vireo in Oregon is the west slope of the Warners, spitting distance from California.       I don't know the current status of Juniper Titmouse in Wyoming,  but they were detected on the Dubois CBC about 1976. That is the location of Audubon Camp of the West. More than anything this thread is about observer effort, not Titmouse biology. The areas described by Kevin comprise hundreds of times more area than the rest of us have visited in Lake County. Given unlimited discretionary time l would gladly spend many weeks there.     Oak Titmice are a part of the California biota, which not surprisingly becomes rapidly more robust as one travels south and west from Lakeview. There are no Oaks of any species in Lake County due to its great elevation. There are many in nearby California, both tree-sized and shrubby species. Craig has pointed out that habitat requirements more than simple geography determine the distribution of Oak Titmice. This why l am highly sceptical about Titmouse hybrids in Lake County.      As for the etymology of titmouse, neither syllable has anything to do with mammals. The first syllable is a contraction of the French "petit". The second is an Anglo Saxon relict, evident in modern Norwegian as"meis" and the German "Meise". The French have forsaken whatever Gaulic name their tits had and call them "mésange ". LarsSent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: <rriparia...> Date: 7/30/19 10:20 PM (GMT-08:00) To: "'<gismiller...>'" <gismiller...>, 'Lars Per Norgren' <larspernorgren...> Cc: 'OBOL' <OBOL...> Subject: RE: [obol] Re: Hybrid zone Craig,Would Lakeview be "west of the Warner Divide"?I have records of titmouse in Bullard Canyon, Lakeview, when I lived there. That's at the base of the North Warners. And I have records of titmouse, likely Juniper, along the western shore of Goose Lake, although I'm not sure it was in Oregon, but even if not, it's still on the Modoc Plateau. That habitat continues northward along the west side of Goose Lake Valley swings northeastward across the Thomas Creek drainage, over to Crooked Creek where it connects with habitat on the east side of Hwy 395. So, there is habitat connections between the Warners and west side of Goose Lake Valley. I don't think Adel birds are as isolated one might think. I have also found titmouse on the east side of North Warners, sort of on the south end of Big Valley, east of Dismal Creek. I think I've heard of Joel mentioning those birds in that area when he's gone on treks to that part of the state. I've encountered them usually on the day prior to the Lakeview BBS, and I've explored the seemingly old growth juniper hills on the east side of the Warners, and north of Fort Bidwell, CA. Kevin SpencerKlamath Falls, OR -----------------------------------------From: "Craig Miller" To: "Lars Per Norgren"Cc: "OBOL"Sent: Tuesday July 30 2019 11:21:00PMSubject: [obol] Re: Hybrid zone


Well, looking at Tom Crabtree's eBird map, it looks like there are plenty of titmouse records east of the Warners.


 It's all juniper habitat, at least to the Klamath line...





Craig Miller







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On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:15 PM Craig Miller <gismiller...> wrote:




Just to set the record straight, I know of no titmouse records west of the Warner divide, but they occur regularly north along Fish Creek Rim nearly to Plush, and irregularly along the west slopes of Hart Mountain as far north as DeGarmo Canyon. I know of one record at Blue Sky at Hart Mountain, and  the northernmost one on Table Rock northeast of Silver Lake. They extend south from the Warner Valley into Nevada and possibly into the extreme northeast corner of California.





Craig Miller


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On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 9:01 PM larspernorgren <larspernorgren...> wrote:








There are zero titmice to the east of Adel and zero to the north. Why would this spot generate hybrids? There is a large titmousefree zone west of the Warner Range.  I fully understand the pitfall of basing an ID on geography alone. But the isolation of the Adel population makes trying to turn it into a hybrid zone spurious at best.









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