Date: 11/15/18 3:08 pm
From: Nate Dias (via carolinabirds Mailing List) <carolinabirds...>
Subject: Re: Cullowhee martin
Another slightly more outlandish possibility is Brown-throated Martin
(formerly known as Plain Martin).

If I were in East Africa or Southern Africa and Jeremy’s Martin flew by, I
would call it a Brown-throated Martin.

If only to eliminate it as a possibility, tomorrow I will email some
African experts about Brown-throated Martin measurements.

Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC

On Thursday, November 15, 2018, Derb Carter <derbc...> wrote:

> So much for measuring by photographs. That could change things. Below
> are listed reported wing chord measurements in Birds of North and Middle
> America (or Neotropical Birds Online if not in the former) in order for
> males and females of each species (longest avg to shortest with reported
> range).
>
>
>
> Male Purple 146.3 139-153
>
> Male Carib 143.5 134-149
>
> Male Cuban 142.5 140-145
>
> Female Purple 142.3 136-147
>
> Female Cuban 140.0
>
> Female Carib 140.0 135.5-148
>
> MaleSinaloa 136.7 136-138
>
> Cullowhee 135.0
>
>
>
> From these measurements, Sinaloa is obviously back in play. Wing chord is
> below the average of all three species (no measurements for female
> Sinaloa), very close to male Sinaloa (would expect female to be slightly
> shorter), and actually shorter than all reported measurements for Caribbean
> or Cuban except one male Caribbean. Also very close to shortest female
> Caribbean and no range reported for female Cuban. But 135 is notably below
> the averages for Cuban and Caribbean.
>
>
>
> Derb Carter
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Jeremy Hyman [mailto:<jhyman...>]
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 15, 2018 3:50 PM
> *To:* <carolinabirds...>; Derb Carter
> *Subject:* Re: Cullowhee martin
>
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> The wing chord of the bird is 135mm. Let me know if anyone wants to know
> any other measurements or see other photos. I think it will be a few days
> before someone from the museum picks it up.
>
> -Jeremy
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* <carolinabirds-request...> <carolinabirds-request...>
> on behalf of Derb Carter <derbc...>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 15, 2018 1:50 PM
> *To:* <carolinabirds...>
> *Subject:* Cullowhee martin
>
>
>
> I have a fair amount of experience with all the Progne martins in the
> Americas, except Galapagos. I think the bird found, photographed, and
> posted in the CBC gallery is almost certainly either a Cuban, Caribbean, or
> Sinaloa Martin, any of which would be an extraordinary record. Female
> plumages of these species are very similar. My limited experience with
> Sinaloa was years ago when it was considered a subspecies of Purple.
> Sinaloa is quite rare within its range in western Mexico, which is much
> more remote from western NC. It is smaller than the other two. This is
> imprecise from the photos, but my estimate of the wing chord in the
> specimen is 142-143 mm which is outside the reported range for Sinaloa of
> 136-138 mm, and within the range 134-149 and close to the mean 143.5 of
> Caribbean (I could not find measurements for Cuban).
>
>
>
> I compared the posted photos to some photos I took of Cuban Martins on
> recent trips and it is generally identical to some in the photos. This
> does not, however, eliminate Caribbean because in female plumage it is
> essentially identical to Cuban (male Caribbeans are white below; male
> Cubans solid blue/purple). I checked some references that say the white
> below is more restricted on Caribbean than on Cuban, but in looking at
> photos of both species I really see little difference. One thing I did
> notice in photos of each species is the undertail covert of female
> Caribbean is always pure white, while the undertail covert of many but not
> all Cuban seems to have a few dark feathers. I have not seen this
> mentioned in guides. The Cullowhee bird has a pure white undertail.
>
>
>
> Hopefully further investigation will reveal the identification, but my
> guess from the photos is either Caribbean or Cuban.
>
>
>
> Derb Carter
>

 
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