Date: 11/15/18 1:08 pm
From: Harry LeGrand (via carolinabirds Mailing List) <carolinabirds...>
Subject: Re: Cullowhee martin

Thanks for uploading the 4 photos onto the CBC Photo Gallery. Can you or
Kent rotate the 3rd photo 180 degrees? That one, and I think #2 and maybe
#4, were uploaded upside down -- at least the ruler is upside down. But,
I'm getting dizzy trying to see the underside of the bird (#3) in normal
view -- head at the top of the photo and tail at the bottom.


Harry LeGrand

On Thu, Nov 15, 2018 at 3:50 PM Jeremy Hyman <jhyman...> wrote:

> Hi Folks,
> The wing chord of the bird is 135mm. Let me know if anyone wants to know
> any other measurements or see other photos. I think it will be a few days
> before someone from the museum picks it up.
> -Jeremy
> ------------------------------
> *From:* <carolinabirds-request...> <carolinabirds-request...>
> on behalf of Derb Carter <derbc...>
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 15, 2018 1:50 PM
> *To:* <carolinabirds...>
> *Subject:* Cullowhee martin
> I have a fair amount of experience with all the Progne martins in the
> Americas, except Galapagos. I think the bird found, photographed, and
> posted in the CBC gallery is almost certainly either a Cuban, Caribbean, or
> Sinaloa Martin, any of which would be an extraordinary record. Female
> plumages of these species are very similar. My limited experience with
> Sinaloa was years ago when it was considered a subspecies of Purple.
> Sinaloa is quite rare within its range in western Mexico, which is much
> more remote from western NC. It is smaller than the other two. This is
> imprecise from the photos, but my estimate of the wing chord in the
> specimen is 142-143 mm which is outside the reported range for Sinaloa of
> 136-138 mm, and within the range 134-149 and close to the mean 143.5 of
> Caribbean (I could not find measurements for Cuban).
> I compared the posted photos to some photos I took of Cuban Martins on
> recent trips and it is generally identical to some in the photos. This
> does not, however, eliminate Caribbean because in female plumage it is
> essentially identical to Cuban (male Caribbeans are white below; male
> Cubans solid blue/purple). I checked some references that say the white
> below is more restricted on Caribbean than on Cuban, but in looking at
> photos of both species I really see little difference. One thing I did
> notice in photos of each species is the undertail covert of female
> Caribbean is always pure white, while the undertail covert of many but not
> all Cuban seems to have a few dark feathers. I have not seen this
> mentioned in guides. The Cullowhee bird has a pure white undertail.
> Hopefully further investigation will reveal the identification, but my
> guess from the photos is either Caribbean or Cuban.
> Derb Carter

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