Date: 10/25/26 11:49 am From: condor262001 via groups.io <condor262001...> Subject: Re: [LACoBirds] White Wagtail Subspecies (not an Amur)
Hi Andrew,
I appreciate your insights. You have access to more information and more experience than I have and ageing wagtails clearly add to the ID issue.You may be completely right that this is an Amur/leucopsis.However, I would guess that the same ageing issues also apply to Iding the Siberian subspecies i referred to.
Here is a link to an ebird image that inspired by look into the ID.https://ebird.org/species/whiwag11 I waded into the ID issue even though I know that Iding subspecies of even familiar birds let alone rarities is difficult.
I also do want to point out that if you look at the first wagtail image (WTWG7084backrevajpg) on my Flickr site https://www.flickr.com/photos/25876581@N00/with/55611514390/ and the first movie (WTWG6501trimcopyrevb) that shows the bird from many angles that it is pretty clear that the bird has a grey (not black) back that is quite a bit lighter than the black crown. Pictures do show a darker back (sometimes black) but that is a sunlight/camera artifact.
Jim HechtHermosa Beach
On Sunday, October 25, 2026 at 11:10:22 AM PDT, Andrew Birch via groups.io <andyrbirch...> wrote:
Hi Jim, ageing and sexing White Wagtails is fraught with peril/bordering on impossible for some birds but both 2CY+ female and 1st winter male leucopsis have dark crowns but grayer backs than adult males. On the LA bird, the very dark gray mantle, blackish scapular feathers, rump, white flanks and apparently all white median coverts would be supporting features vs baicalensis and also dukhunensis.
I would recommend all birders interested in wagtail and pipit ID to secure the indispensible Alstrom and Mild Pipits and Wagtails book and additionally the newer and excellent ID Handbook of European Birds by Nils van Duivendijk has a nice spread of photos of this form.
Best, Andy BirchLos Feliz
On Sunday, October 25, 2026 at 08:56:42 AM PDT, condor262001 via groups.io <condor262001...> wrote:
This bird at the Sepulveda Coastal Spreading grounds has been reported as a Chinese Wagtail that I believe is also called AMUR.That wagtail has a black back. On reviewing my images/movies this bird clearly has a grey back.Hence I believe it is either a Transbaikalian Wagtail (Motacilla alba Balcalensis) or the somewhat more generic White-faced Wagtail thatincludes the dukhunensis variety and that ebird refers as White-faced Wagtail Motacilla alba lab/dukhensis/baicalensis.I am sure others will weigh in. My images and movies are on my Flick pagehttps://www.flickr.com/photos/25876581@N00/ Jim Hechthermosa Beach CA
