Date: 4/21/26 11:15 am From: Robert O'Brien via Tweeters <tweeters...> Subject: Re: [Tweeters] The Merlin discussion
Whoops, sorry for the typo, Chuq !
On Tue, Apr 21, 2026 at 11:02 AM Robert O'Brien <baro...> wrote:
> An interesting Merlin discussion. As it happens I have extensive Merlin experience
> in the last few months and some detailed discussions with others on OBOL.
> I've been using it regularly around my rural property and, whatever its
> limitations, it's great. Likely 10x more sensitive than my ageing ears,
> even with hearing aids. An birding around here for 50 years, I know what
> birds are around.
>
> As to Bill's comments and more or less the same in part as Chug's:
>
> *Merlin has undoubtedly helped increase the number of new or novice
> birders, but is there any evidence that it has changed the ratio of
> novice:skilled birders? I’ve not seen such evidence, and my subjective
> assessment is that the wave of new birders has been simultaneous with a
> significant increase in the number of proficient birders. If the ratio
> has been relatively constant over the span of eBird years, then Merlin has
> not increased the magnitude of error in the database.*
>
> *I*n fact, Errors in Merlin submissions have recently led to a
> significant change in the CURRENT version. There is a continuation of
> improvements, some seem to download automatically, others not. But the
> current version has this major changel Merlin has learned the 'expected'
> birds for many areas, mine for instance. It has compiled such a list (I
> think I have at my place SE of Portland, 109 allowed species) If it
> encounters a bird at my place that is not on this list, it simply refuses
> to identify it altogether and just continues recording. If I turn off
> the location option in Merlin, it refuses to identify any sound. It
> will still record, and you can see bird sounds go by on the screen, but
> none will be identified.
> As to no hint of the certainty of an ID, that is incorrect, as well. It
> now has a system of varying colored 'dots' accompanying a bird ID on my
> list, but unlikely to be present will receive a red dot. Migrants out of
> migration times, for instane. A bird normally expected will receive a
> different colored dot to indicate that. Etc. I was able to learn the
> meaning of these 'dots' simply by Googling them.
>
> One further point, as I stated above, I'm referring here to the *Current
> Version*, which I recently downloaded. Merlin is not so much a 'tool'
> but a work in progress. Cornell is working very hard to keep the
> improvements coming and I personally believe that many of its problems of
> today will be gone tomorrow, or pretty soon. But as a tool, it is quite
> amazing as it stands, and will only get better. Although there are bumps
> on the road, I think Cornell is doing an outstanding job with it.
>
> As to the statement that it is created by humans and therefore has errors
> as do humans. That was once undoubtedly true, and is still true. (Take
> the refusal to identify birds not on the locality list, Seems better to
> identify them (for the user) but simply not to submit them to eBird).
> But, in the current world of AI, that general statement of human error, for
> better or worse, is no longer true. Humans are involved, but AI will be
> doing all the 'work' if it isn't already doing so. Sure, AI makes mistakes
> as well, it is also a 'tool' of continuing improvement.
>
> I could continue, but, as they say, *Nuf said, *at least for now.
>
> Bob OBrien Portland
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 9:40 PM Chuq Von Rospach via Tweeters <
> <tweeters...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2026 at 13:33:08, Bill Tweit via Tweeters <
>> <tweeters...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Everybody seems to agree that Merlin is simply a tool, but then
>>> discussions range well beyond that in terms of expectations and
>>> limitations. Merlin’s inability to accurately discriminate between CHSP
>>> and DEJU is a great opportunity to examine some of our expectations about
>>> Merlin, and determine whether they are realistic. First, why do we expect
>>> Merlin to be any better than a reasonably skilled human observer?
>>>
>> Bottom line, please do not expect Merlin to be perfect, even in North
>>> America where it is quite good.
>>>
>>
>> I don’t, but this is my biggest issue with Merlin. If I’m out birding
>> with an expert ear birder, they will head and ID many birds I’ll never
>> catch — but they can also explain what’s going on and note when they aren’t
>> sure of an ID.
>>
>> Merlin issues every ID as if it’s perfect. “I hear a bird!” — and it’s
>> this. I expect all of us on this list know to take that with a grain or
>> three of salt, but we are not typical Merlin users. I looked at Merlin this
>> afternoon at a random time and it told me there were 74,000 current users.
>> I just checked again (at 9PM Washington time) and there are 18,000 users.
>>
>> Most of those users are newer/casual users. Statistically speaking, none
>> of them are on this list, or a member of an audbon/alliance chapter, or go
>> out on group outings with trained leaders that can help guide them. Merlin
>> is their guide.
>>
>> And Merlin presents its results as correct and infallible (and yes, I’m
>> reflecting back to my comments a few days ago on the need for a confidence
>> factor on these IDs. If Merlin did that, it’d resolve pretty much all
>> discussion on its accuracy and reliability).
>>
>>
>> Second, why do we think that use of Merlin has increased the level of
>>> error in the eBird data?
>>>
>>
>> My take is that it hasn’t. Or, with a bit more nuance, I think tools like
>> Merlin have actually reduced the percentage of errors recorded, but has
>> also encouraged many more people to submit records, so I expect the total
>> number of errors is up but the percentage of records that are incorrect has
>> gone down. I have no data on this, but in my time working with and teaching
>> newer birders, I’ve seen the trajectory from enthusiastically and
>> energetically wrong to more thoughtful and skeptical many times (and god
>> help me, I remember when I was a new baby birder and every freaking bird I
>> saw was both rare and wrong. That others were willing to drag me into
>> competence is one reason I’ve been willing to do the same in my pay forward
>> times)
>>
>> And, let’s not forget that Merlin was built to assist with several
>>> objectives, only one of which is helping birders in the field. It has
>>> another, very significant, purpose: to increase awareness of birds among
>>> the general population. Most of the Merlin users I encounter now are
>>> people who take some joy in finding out what birds are present in their
>>> yard, or on the favorite walking routes, or while they are camping, …
>>> They aren’t contributing sightings to eBird, they just want to know more
>>> about the world around them.
>>>
>>
>> And it’s amazing at that — and anything that helps people find that spark
>> that begins the journey into being bird people I’m all for. I just wish
>> Merlin was willing to say “That’s a Robin” and “This might be a Chipping
>> Sparrow, but I’m not positive because Juncos sound similar. What are you
>> seeing?”
>>
>> My wish here is for Merlin to grow from presenting itself as the
>> infallible expert into being that AND a mentor and teacher, by putting in
>> some context when appropriate and leading people into being more skeptical
>> and looking for more data (like a sighting) to verify the ID. Imagine if
>> Merlin admitted it wasn’t sure and added a button “I saw it1” that people
>> could click. They become part of the teaching that improved Merlin down the
>> road…
>>
>> But I think it’s important that Merlin add that skepticism into how it
>> presents itself, because of those 74,000 concurrent users this afternoon,
>> almost all of them have no contact with the people (like those here on this
>> list) that can do the mentoring and teaching to help them become more
>> skeptical and thoughtful about Merlin’s results. Merlin needs to be
>> responsible to set those expectations more realistically for the users that
>> don’t yet know not to implicitly trust it.
>>
>> So, let’s be realistic about Merlin.
>>>
>> I’d say everyone on this list is, but my worry is about those new/novice
>> users who are presented with a tool that gives no indication it might be
>> wrong at time, and therefore has no reason to assume it’s sometimes giving
>> them bad results. And an easy way to tweak Merlin is to add that confidence
>> factor into the IDs, as tools like Haiku already have.
>>
>> Chuq
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>> Chuq Von Rospach (http://www.chuq.me)
>> Silverdale, Washington
>> Birder, Nature and Wildlife Photographer
>>
>> Email me at: <chuqvr...>
>> Mastodon: @<chuqvr...>
>>
>> Stay Updated with what I'm doing: https://www.chuq.me/6fps/ >> My latest e-book: https://www.chuq.me/ebooks >>
>> I have opinions
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tweeters mailing list
>> <Tweeters...>
>> http://mailman11.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/tweeters >>
>
