Date: 4/20/26 8:21 am From: Amar Ayyash <amarayyash...> Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] What, truly, is "Nelson's Gull?"
Ah, Nelson's Gull rears its ugly head again!
It's true that Henshaw (1884) used the name to denote a species, and Dwight
(1925) used it for Vega and Glaucous hybrids. I once thought it was a big
deal to make some distinction (and perhaps it is more than ever with the
Herring Gull split). Viking Gull is the most visible and well-known of the
Glaucous/Herring hybrids, and I'm glad that one has a catchy name if only
to make some distinction.
It appears Jehl (1987) normalized the use of Nelson's Gull for American
Herring x Glaucous hybrids, which is now common practice across North
America. For what it's worth, I explain this on pp.454-458 in The Gull
Guide, and also use Nelson's Gull for smithsonianus x hyperboreus.
Respectfully,
Amar Ayyash
On Mon, Apr 20, 2026 at 9:04 AM Nick Lethaby <nlethaby...> wrote:
> Based on my experience in the 90s birding in NE Asia and the SF Bay Area, I
> would say that Nelson's Gulls are commoner in the W USA than in NE Asia.
>
> Nick Lethaby
> Goleta, CA
>
> <nlethaby...>
> Mobile: 805 284 6200
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2026, 4:34 AM <chucao...> wrote:
>
> > Bob
> >
> > There are a bunch of Vega x Glaucous photos on eBird, including some I
> > have seen in Japan. They are not common though, so the few photos may be
> > partly an issue of the hybrid itself not being all that common?
> >
> > https://media.ebird.org/catalog?birdOnly=true&taxonCode=x01132 > >
> > Alvaro
> >
> > Alvaro Jaramillo
> > <alvaro...>
> > www.alvarosadventures.com
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification <
> > <BIRDWG01...> On Behalf Of Robert O'Brien
> > Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2026 11:33 PM
> > To: <BIRDWG01...>
> > Subject: Re: [BIRDWG01] What, truly, is "Nelson's Gull?"
> >
> > Yep, and thus Nelson's Gull does not appear in the Macaulay Bird Library.
> > GlaucousXHerring has lots of photos though
> > https://search.macaulaylibrary.org/catalog?taxonCode=x01131 > >
> > As for VegaX,.... there are very few photos and 'they' are punting on
> what
> > they are. The listing is American Herring/Vega/European Herring x
> Glaucous
> > Gull (hybrid) - Larus
> > https://search.macaulaylibrary.org/catalog?taxonCode=nelgul > >
> > If you select a photo, then the original checklist will be available.
> >
> > Bob OBrien Portland OR
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 19, 2026 at 7:27 PM <chucao...> wrote:
> >
> > > Tony
> > >
> > > Amar suggested this some years back. But in the end it really does
> > > not matter in the usage of the term "Nelson's Gull" as it is not a
> valid
> > taxon.
> > > It does not need to follow any specific rules of taxonomy or naming.
> > > So if we have taken Nelson's Gull to mean American Herring x Glaucous,
> > > then we should keep using that even if the first Nelson's Gull might
> > > have been something else.
> > >
> > > Alvaro
> > >
> > > Alvaro Jaramillo
> > > <alvaro...>
> > > www.alvarosadventures.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NBHC ID-FRONTIERS Frontiers of Field Identification <
> > > <BIRDWG01...> On Behalf Of <greatgrayowl...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2026 6:12 PM
> > > To: <BIRDWG01...>
> > > Subject: [BIRDWG01] What, truly, is "Nelson's Gull?"
> > >
> > > Hi all:
> > > It suddenly came to me when doing some review work that, with the
> > > recent taxonomic changes in what we used to call Herring Gull (sensu
> > > largo), the moniker "Nelson's Gull" is possibly not correctly
> > > associated with Glaucous Gull x American Herring Gull. Given that the
> > > type specimen was collected in June at "St. Michael's" (now St.
> > > Michael) on the western shore of Alaska due E of St. Lawrence Island,
> > > might this hybrid be referable to Glaucous x Vega? I don't know where
> > > the specimen is currently housed (it was originally deposited in the
> > > US Nat'l Mus.; 97253; Henshaw 1884), but it might be quite useful for
> > > someone to track that thing down. Perhaps that task has already been
> > completed. If so, I'd love to know the result.
> > > Henshaw, H. W. 1884. On a New Gull from Alaska. The Auk 1 (3):250-252.
> > > (On a New Gull from Alaska) Tony Tony LeukeringDenver, COeBird blog
> > > eBird commentaryPhotos
> > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html > > >
> > > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html > > >
> >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html > >
> > Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html > >
>
> Archives: https://listserv.ksu.edu/birdwg01.html >
