Date: 3/25/26 8:04 pm From: Lisa Ruby via groups.io <lbruby1...> Subject: Re: [SanDiegoRegionBirding] Odd bird song in Poway yesterday afternoon
Thank you Ed (and Phil). After listening to a lot of different recordings of Golden-crowned and White-throated Sparrows, if it was a Sparrow my totally inexpert opinion would be White-throated. There are some that have spent the winter in San Diego County, including one in the Poway area that I learned this afternoon has been visiting someone's yard that is about 3/4 of a mile as the bird flies from the park. Probably too far for it to be that bird. The quality of the notes didn't seem as clear and loud to me as either Sparrow. My first thought when I was there listening to it was maybe a Warbler of some sort, but I ultimately ruled that out. Best I could tell the bird was up in a smallish tree and not conspicuous if that helps at all.
Lisa Ruby Sabre Springs
On 3/25/2026 6:51 PM, ed pandolfino via groups.io wrote:
> Wow, Lisa that is a very interesting recording. I also think that Golden-crowned Sparrow (subsong) is a good guess. One thing that is odd for subsong is how relatively consistent the song is from one to the next. The structure here consists of two down-slurred notes ending at about 5kHz, then those three oddly down-slurred higher pitched notes, then two lower notes on a steady pitch, then ending with slightly downslurred notes at a frequency more or less between the first and third set of notes. If I ignore that second set of odd notes, it resembles the Type 3 song (see for example spectrograms in this paper: [View of USING SONG DIALECTS TO ASSESS THE MIGRATION STRATEGY OF THE GOLDEN-CROWNED SPARROW](https://journal.westernfieldornithologists.org/index.php/westernbirds/article/view/703/665)) I found most common among SoCal wintering GCSP. (All GCSP songs start with a down-slurred note, followed usually by two sets of notes on a steady pitch). that third set of notes at a steady pitch look just like the middle notes of the Type 3 song. In Type 3 songs the third note or notes are at a pitch intermediate between the first and second notes. That fact that the syntax (the order of the phrases) remains consistent does not rule out subsong as syntax is often somewhat innate, even in species that learn their songs. > > https://journal.westernfieldornithologists.org/index.php/westernbirds/article/view/703/665 > > View of USING SONG DIALECTS TO ASSESS THE MIGRATION STRATEGY OF THE GOLD... > > That's only a guess, of course. If I had to pick a second option, it would also be White-throated Sparrow subsong, as Bruce suggests. So still a Zonothrichia and their songs are more GCSP-like than WCSP-like. > > Do go back and see if you can refind this bird and get a look and another recording. Given that young birds' songs are crystallizing right now, it might even have and "improved" version to share. > > And I'll reiterate Bruce's advice and ANY recordings. Longer the better. I have studied song repertoire of some birds using archived recordings and short recordings are just about useless for that purpose. > > thanks for sharing this > > Ed Pandolfino > >> com > > On Wednesday, March 25, 2026 at 06:12:12 PM PDT, Philip Unitt [<unitt...>](mailto:<unitt...>) wrote: > > Dear Lisa, > > In this response, I'm copying Ed Pandolfino from the Sacramento area. Ed has studied and published on variation in the Golden-crowned Sparrow. I thought of him because, to me, your recording sound closest to that species. > > Very interesting! > > Thanks much, > > Philip Unitt > San Diego > > On Wednesday, March 25, 2026 at 03:28:17 PM PDT, Bruce Rideout via groups.io [<bnkrideout...>](mailto:<bnkrideout...>) wrote: > > Lisa: It sounds to me like you have two birds singing similar unusual songs, which reduces the likelihood that it's a significant rarity. It's worth noting that this is the time of year for unusual songs. Males entering their first breeding season will often be singing subsong or plastic song as they transition to their final adult song, and adult males may sometimes sing truncated songs before the breeding season is fully underway. > > Mountain Chickadee seems like a reasonable possibility for these, although it's hard to find close matches in the Macaulay library, as you mentioned. The closest I can find is this one: https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/632267226 > > Zonotrichia sparrows, like a Golden-crowned Sparrow or even a White-throated Sparrow, might also be possibilities, but the notes are a bit short and delivered more rapidly than I would expect. Those species also often intersperse various call notes with song phrases, which I don't hear in your recording. Which brings up another point. When recording an unknown species, it's always a good idea to get recordings that are as long as possible. Often a suspected ID can be clinched if there are species specific call notes that show up eventually along with the song phrases. > > If you get a chance, I would encourage you to go back and see if you can confirm the ID. > > Bruce Rideout > La Mesa > >> On Mar 25, 2026, at 11:55 AM, Lisa Ruby via groups.io [<lbruby1...>](mailto:<lbruby1...>) wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I was on a bike ride yesterday afternoon and stopped at Valle Verde Park >> for a little while to check for birds. Right when I got there I heard a >> bird singing and I could not identify the song. Merlin couldn't either, >> despite repetitive singing and the bird being close. I have a recording. >> After putting the recording on the computer, amplifying it and playing >> it back to Merlin, Merlin finally decided it was a Mountain Chickadee. >> That seems like a distinct possibility, but I don't think I've ever >> heard a Mountain Chickadee song sound quite like this. Possibly at Mount >> Palomar where I've heard them make different sounds, but I don't >> remember. It's not unusual for me to run across Chickadees around the >> Poway and Carmel Mountain Ranch area at this time of year. I've listened >> to many recordings of Chickadees online and can't find one like this. >> I've listened to a lot of Warbler songs and none of those matched >> either. I posted the recording under passerine sp on my list, which is here: >> >> https://ebird.org/atlascalifornia/checklist/S312814277 >> >> Anyone know for sure if this was a Mountain Chickadee, or know what it >> was if it was something else? >> >> Lisa Ruby >> Sabre Springs >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Lisa Ruby >> Sabre Springs >> >> >> >> >> > >
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