Date: 12/5/25 9:04 pm From: Susan Rosine <u5b2mtdna...> Subject: Re: [cobirds] Unknown Woodpecker, Montrose Colorado, Dec 04 25
My expert opinion is ...
Mark Obmascik's remark summed up the whole discussion perfectly.
Susan Rosine
Brighton
On Fri, Dec 5, 2025, 9:42 PM Aiden Moser <aidenmoser10...> wrote:
> Let’s remember that conflicting thoughts on bird identification are not
> personal affronts, and that this post was initially framed as a question
> rather than a definitive identification. Defensiveness indicatives
> insecurity as opposed to expertise, and accepting input from individuals
> with all levels of experience is the sign of a well-seasoned birder.
>
>
> On Dec 5, 2025, at 8:44 PM, Ron W <ourwildplaces...> wrote:
>
> This Northern Flicker discussion has run its course. Many have emailed me
> directly stating that they are in agreement with this appearing to be an
> adult female Black-backed, and that they see no similarity with a NOFL.
> Some posted to this thread. I saw the bird and you can continue to tell
> me what it is and isn't, but I'm done responding to you.
>
> On Friday, December 5, 2025 at 6:10:17 PM UTC-7 Owen Robertson wrote:
>
>> Ron, even if we're assuming that the bird depicted in the shot showing
>> the face is a separate individual from the pics now on eBird (which would
>> be very surprising to me, given that it's in the same location on the same
>> tree, and your previous description indicates that only a few seconds
>> passed in between the different photo series. You say that the photo series
>> show obviously different birds - I see pretty much the same bird between
>> photos!), the focal pictures still show a brown-backed and gray-naped
>> woodpecker. See the attached close-up of one of your photos which
>> demonstrates this color pattern. Whether or not you believe this can match
>> a NOFL is honestly a little irrelevant - it objectively *cannot* match a
>> Black-backed. Furthermore, you note that snow on the ground will affect the
>> exposure of your phone camera - wouldn't snow lead to the underexposing of
>> dark objects, such as a flicker, making it appear darker? I also don't
>> quite understand what you mean by "Nearly every WP species can be easily
>> identified from similar photos, and only with difficulty between very
>> similar species." I agree that woodpeckers (aside from a few confusing
>> species complexes) can be easily identified, but I'm not quite sure what
>> that has to do with your bird (to me, it's easily identifiable as a
>> flicker!).
>> Best,
>> --Owen
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 7:53 PM Ron W <ourwil......> wrote:
>>
>>> Owen, that bird is clearly not the same as one from the rest of the
>>> series, and no other species mentioned in this thread can appear as this
>>> bird did. Nearly every WP species can be easily identified from similar
>>> photos, and only with difficulty between very similar species.
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 5, 2025 at 5:39:03 PM UTC-7 Owen Robertson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ron, this is unequivocally a Northern Flicker. Putting aside the
>>>> question of likelihood and the high burden of proof needed to demonstrate
>>>> the presence of a BBWO in SW Colorado, your photos (and field
>>>> observations/comments!) show a NOFL to a T. A key feature that I'm
>>>> surprised has been mostly skipped over in this conversation is the back
>>>> color. Black-backed Woodpecker, of course, shows an entirely black back
>>>> (and crown, nape, and face). Not just *dark - **black. *The bird in
>>>> the photos, at all angles, shows a rather plain back, one that might be
>>>> called dark, but distinctly grayish-brown. You note that your bird cannot
>>>> be a Northern Flicker because a flicker "reads as brown, rather than
>>>> black." I see a brown-backed bird, with a grayish head, in your images!
>>>> Furthermore, the best picture you have, which shows a side view (and which
>>>> I'm surprised to note isn't on eBird anymore) clearly shows a dark malar
>>>> (whether it's red or not is a moot point - BBWO should not show an isolated
>>>> dark malar stripe, aside from the submoustachial which appears quite
>>>> different from your bird), a rufous forecrown, a gray nape, disorganized
>>>> spotting on the flanks, and a black chest crescent, all of which are 100%
>>>> diagnostic for Northern Flicker. The flank spotting has been brought up a
>>>> few times in support of BBWO, so I want to pay extra attention to it here.
>>>> BBWO shows a rather fine, grayish-black set of bars on the flanks, which at
>>>> a distance easily blend into one another, creating a gray wash on the
>>>> flanks (see this <https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/646255589> photo
>>>> of a BBWO - you can easily imagine how at a greater distance/lower photo
>>>> quality, the bars would be even less visible, completely unlike the
>>>> patterning on your bird. Additionally, BBWO flanks show dark and light
>>>> pigment with equal prominence, due to the even width and consistent spacing
>>>> of the barring. Instead, your bird shows prominent dark patches on a less
>>>> visible light background, a pattern consistent with the spotting of a
>>>> Northern Flicker. These features aren't artifacts of photo quality, as you
>>>> yourself noted a "possible dark red semicircle below the eye" in your
>>>> initial description, a phrase that I'm surprised to see has been removed
>>>> from your eBird list. And if more evidence was needed, BBWO should display
>>>> several other absolutely diagnostic features, such as a bold *white* moustachial stripe,
>>>> which would be readily visible in your photos. I've attached a quick
>>>> diagram I made on your best photo (which I would recommend re-uploading to
>>>> eBird) highlighting the primary field marks I mentioned. While this
>>>> unfortunately isn't a BBWO, it's a good reminder to Colorado birders to
>>>> keep it in mind, as I wouldn't be completely shocked if one overshot down
>>>> into, say, Jackson County during a particularly cold winter/after an
>>>> extensive fire.
>>>> Best,
>>>> --Owen
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 7:02 PM Ron W <ourwil......> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It matches adult female Black-backed WP taken from that angle to a T.
>>>>> ...and I shared a link to a bird appearing just like this one further up in
>>>>> the thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, December 5, 2025 at 4:36:13 PM UTC-7 Evan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately, Black-backed woodpecker doesn't match the bird either,
>>>>>> as they do not have a uniformly dark head. I also don't notice a ruler or
>>>>>> anything of known size in the image, so I'm curious what determined that it
>>>>>> was 9" in length.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Evan Carlson
>>>>>> Pueblo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 4:12 PM Ron W <ourwil......> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the help in working through this.
>>>>>>> No other species matches this bird, and thus I've recorded it on
>>>>>>> e-bird as a Black-backed, adult female. I also added one photo of the many
>>>>>>> others I took, from a slightly farther distance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://ebird.org/checklist/S287390731 >>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks again, Ron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Friday, December 5, 2025 at 3:22:02 PM UTC-7 Ron W wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Josh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've seen hundreds of Flickers and you're telling me I saw one and
>>>>>>>> didn't recognize it? Out of the question really. Your photos are clearly
>>>>>>>> of a poorly lit Flicker, and had I saw that bird, I would have instantly
>>>>>>>> known what it was.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> However, when I saw this all black backed woodpecker I thought
>>>>>>>> "what!?" and immediately got the phone out. Your bird looks nothing like
>>>>>>>> my observed woodpecker, so it cannot be a Northern Flicker.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Flicker:
>>>>>>>> Larger. Larger bill, larger overall.
>>>>>>>> Not uniformly dark from the top of the head to the tail.
>>>>>>>> Tail is noticeably longer than my observed bird.
>>>>>>>> Reads as brown rather than black.
>>>>>>>> Less contrast between the back and front of the bird in question.
>>>>>>>> Even if you look at the last image at the *possible* red malar,
>>>>>>>> it's not placed the same or in the same shape as a Flicker, as it is right
>>>>>>>> up under the eye. As I said, this photo was in the shadow and is less
>>>>>>>> reliable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 5, 2025 at 3:06:49 PM UTC-7 Josh Bruening wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ron,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your bird is a Northern Flicker. The spots on the side rather
>>>>>>>>> than barring and red malar are slam dunks. To me, all pictures look like
>>>>>>>>> the same bird. You asked for photos so here are two of my (not so great)
>>>>>>>>> photos from my back yard in Fort Collins. This is a melanistic Northern
>>>>>>>>> Flicker. I included a pic from that same morning with a "regular" Northern
>>>>>>>>> Flicker along with the melanistic one. The difference between the two was
>>>>>>>>> striking and I wish I would have gotten better pics. Though you can't see
>>>>>>>>> it in these pics because I was unable to capture it, the bird's back was
>>>>>>>>> very dark and not what you would normally expect from a Flicker.Photo
>>>>>>>>> quality/chimney soot/melanism, and other myriad circumstances can all be
>>>>>>>>> reasons why a common bird would suddenly look exotic. I hope these help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Josh Bruening
>>>>>>>>> Fort Collins
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2025, at 1:48 PM, Ron W <ourwil......> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reasons Lewis's isn't a good fit for this bird:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Observed behavior. They are usually observed high in trees rather
>>>>>>>>> than foraging near the base.
>>>>>>>>> In full light, I think I would have seen green on its back. This
>>>>>>>>> bird appeared black to the eye. In my experience, Lewis's can look black,
>>>>>>>>> but not in full sun.
>>>>>>>>> The bird in question had a shorter tail.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 340 younger Lewis's photos:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://media.ebird.org/catalog?birdOnly=true&taxonCode=lewwoo&mediaType=photo&sort=rating_rank_desc&age=juvenile,immature >>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Friday, December 5, 2025 at 2:28:02 PM UTC-7 Paula Hansley
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that immature Lewis ‘s Woodpecker is a very good
>>>>>>>>>> possibility. The size and proportions don’t look right for a Williamson’s
>>>>>>>>>> Sapsucker.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Paula Hansley
>>>>>>>>>> Louisville
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2025 at 2:10 PM Mars Atchison <
>>>>>>>>>> <marsatc......> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't necessarily think it is one, but is there a reason no
>>>>>>>>>>> one is considering an odd looking juvenile Lewis's?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 5, 2025, 1:45 PM Caoimhín Perkins <
>>>>>>>>>>> <ksper......> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s little hard to tell but these do look more like spots than
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the other photos. I do not see any red personally but taking another
>>>>>>>>>>>> look at this photo is interesting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
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