Date: 8/14/25 5:45 pm From: Grove, Deborah Shuey <dsg4...> Subject: Re: osprey or red tail
With our atlassing we have encountered many people who love birds. Some are using Merlin and sit on their porch in the woods and are very surprised at how many birds pop up. They enjoy telling us about their newfound findings.
They realize that there are a lot more than just Robins etc.
However, we realize it is not the time to have a conversation about how some of those birds may not actually be there. It is just good to be an ambassador to praise their interest.
Another comment about REVI vs PHVI is that the app has gotten much better. I rarely get it popping up now and Greg has fewer showing up to review.
Another side note is that Greg created a FB site for Huntingdon birds. And asked people to let us know if they have heard Whip-poor-wills. We got quite a few responses and could add them as atlas sightings. Most are in southern Huntingdon county which is quite a bit different than the north and I will leave it there.
Deb
Deborah S. Grove
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From: Bird discussion list for Pennsylvania <PABIRDS...> on behalf of SCOTT WEIDENSAUL <000001343b2dd726-dmarc-request...>
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2025 3:56:23 PM
To: pabirds <PABIRDS...>
Subject: Re: [PABIRDS] osprey or red tail
I see both sides of the argument Russ is making.
Anything can be a crutch, if you let it be. On the other hand, I spend a lot of time in the field with people who are very new to birding, and for whom Merlin has opened a world of bird vocalization that for a lot of them would otherwise be overwhelmingly confusing. Some folks are wired for sound, and pick up birdsong effortlessly, but not everyone (and I am one of those for whom the visual aspects of ID always came easily, but not the audio side). Merlin *does* teach people, by allowing new birders to easily associate the sounds they hear with an identification.
I’ll also admit that, even with hearing aids my hearing loss has reached a point where some species, especially high-pitched warblers, are just gone. Merlin at least lets me know that the Blackburnians haven’t abandoned our woods, I just can’t hear them any more. I realize that’s not what Russ was talking about, but my point is that in balance, I think Merlin’s a huge plus for birding.
Scott Weidensaul
> On Aug 14, 2025, at 2:59 PM, Russ Ruffing <russruffing...> wrote:
>
> Except in my opinion, Merlin doesn’t really teach people anything. It creates a crutch, and birders learn to not trust their ear, nor does it encourage them to actually track down the vocalizer and “put eyes to their ears,” which helps to hardwire the ID in one’s brain.
>
> I routinely see birders with their phone strapped to their wrist and running Merlin continuously (using an external charger they’ve hooked up to the phone) and they spend their entire time out in the field looking at their phone. This is not birding.
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:29 PM SCOTT WEIDENSAUL <000001343b2dd726-dmarc-request...> wrote:
> The lesson is that while Merlin is good, it’s not perfect, and sometimes seeing is believing. I find it struggled if there’s background noise, or unusually short vocalizations.
>
> And sometimes birds don’t make the sounds they’re “supposed” to make. This spring, for example, my wife and I encountered a male dark-eyed junco singing his heart out on a ridgetop in the While Mountains — but instead of the typical long, melodic trill, it ended each time with a jumble of notes unlike any junco song I’ve ever heard. Merlin kept saying, “Hearing a Bird,” but never gave an ID, presumably because it didn’t match anything its machine learning had encountered. Merlin’s also known to struggle with distinguishing red-eyed and Philadelphia vireo, which is perhaps understandable, since those two species will respond to the other’s (almost identical) songs.
>
> Still, the app is pretty amazing. For those of us of a certain age, who grew up when learning bird songs with technology meant listening to a 33 rpm record on a turntable, it’s simply astounding.
>
> Scott Weidensaul
> Milton NH (formerly Schuylkill Co.)
>
>
> > On Aug 14, 2025, at 2:16 PM, <ceceliahard...> <000001ea2b4afe88-dmarc-request...> wrote:
> >
> > Merlin sound ID keeps suggesting it hears osprey when I only see red tailed hawk. Today I was walking by the Allegheny River and heard what I thought was a red tailed hawk and saw an adult perched on a sign on the Highland Park bridge. I saw another bird about 100 yards away and could see it vocalizing (I think).
> >
> > Merlin cycled between osprey and red tail ID and even added in Bald eagle at one point. I couldn't clearly see the calling bird clearly, but it seemed to be a juvenile red tail. I was not far downriver from the osprey nest that fledged a young bird this spring. I appreciate comments.
> >
> > Cecelia Hard
> > Allegheny County
