Date: 7/12/25 9:51 am From: Zac Denning via groups.io <zdenning1...> Subject: Re: [EBB-Sightings] Is this an Allen's at Blake Garden?
Thanks Ethan - very helpful info!
Zac
On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 9:47 AM Ethan Monk <z.querula...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Immature male feels safely supported by the iridescent gorget feathers
> coming in at the very side of the gorget (bottom of auricular-ish), and the
> more inner rectrices often have more green showing in females. So for
> example on the R2 (second rectrix from center) you will often have green
> sandwiched between the rufous and black on the females. The green will
> often be more extensive on the R1 in females, etc.
>
> When it comes to the finer points of the ID, which is importantly done
> based on age/sex, I think Zac's explanation did a good job.
>
> I will say, the width of the outermost rectrix-- R5 --has burned me
> before. The apparent width of that tail feather can change a lot based on
> the angle of the photo, and I just stay away in cases where it feels even
> vaguely ambiguous. But I know people better than me disagree.
>
> As this conversation handily illustrates, non-adult male Rufous and
> Allen's Hummingbirds are generally not identifiable under standard field
> conditions, which is why Allen's Hummingbird flags as "rare" in eBird for
> Contra Costa County in late June. Most adult male Allen's depart earlier in
> the month, so it will get really hard to find a "safe" Allen's by the end
> of June. Obviously, Allen's are still around, so if you go around
> photographing tail feathers you will find plenty of Allen's (females and
> immatures) right after they flag in eBird, but it's worth noting Rufous
> Hummingbirds start to show up at end of June, too. By second week of July,
> Rufous Hummingbirds are very present in the interior parts of the East Bay.
> And presumably the more coastal parts too, but harder to say for obvious
> reasons!
>
> Ethan
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 6:59 PM Bob Lewis via groups.io <RLewis0727=
> <aol.com...> wrote:
>
>> Wow, I just sent Claude a note saying it was a female. Reasoning being
>> the tips of R3-R5 are bright white, and immature male is more tan-tipped.
>> I do think the R5 is quite narrow, supporting Allen's. If indeed it's a
>> male, then I think Zac's comments regarding the absence of a notch (or
>> nipple-like tip) is convincing, and it's an Allen's. But obviously I have
>> no real clue!!
>> Bob
>>
>> On Friday, July 11, 2025 at 06:48:58 PM PDT, Zac Denning via groups.io
>> <zdenning1...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Claude,
>>
>> This is a juvenile male, so the ID is a bit more subtle than for adult
>> males. Unfortunately, by this time of year, my understanding is that the
>> adult males have mostly left the scene, so the tougher birds are what were
>> left with ...
>>
>> Others are more expert, but for what it’s worth, here’s my take:
>> The R2 feather (next to innermost tail feather in your 3rd shot) appears
>> to be missing the slight notch that juvenile male Rufous would usually
>> show. If you happen to also have a shot of the outermost tail feather
>> that’s separated enough from the others to see the feather width, that
>> might help clarify further.
>>
>> In terms of whether the 3rd photo (with spread tail) meets the reviewers’
>> threshold for listing as Allen’s, I’m not sure. The default right now would
>> be listing all these birds as a slash (Allen’s/Rufous Hummingbird).
>>
>> If you don’t get definitive feedback from a reviewer/expert on this
>> email thread, and if you have the reviewer’s contact, you could list as
>> a slash on eBird, reach out to them, then wait for confirmation before
>> proceeding with a more definitive ID. Otherwise, you could try listing
>> as Allen’s, and say in the eBird description that you’re seeking reviewer
>> feedback. If your reviewer responds (whatever the outcome), please be sure
>> to thank them for their unpaid work to keep eBird data accurate! It’s not
>> an easy job.
>>
>> Maybe someone has another suggestion, but that’s usually how I’d usually
>> handle this type of situation.
>>
>> I hope that helps.
>>
>> Zac Denning
>> Albany
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 5:44 PM Claude Lyneis via groups.io <cmlyneis=
>> <gmail.com...> wrote:
>>
>> After seeing several eBird reports of Allen’s Hummingbirds in U.C. Blake
>> Garden I thought I would try again to get some definitive photos that would
>> pass expert judgement and not have to be labeled Allen’s/Rufous. A couple
>> of these photo show good detail of the tail feathers, but is that enough?
>> There were several of these Hummers buzzing around and at least one
>> Anna’s. Blake Garden seemed a rather magical place hidden away in
>> Kensington.
>>
>> Here is an album with four photos of the bird.
>>
>> [image: 54648983475_d4aa3e69a4_c.jpg]
>>
>> Allen's Hummingbird <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjCm8Gz> >> flic.kr <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjCm8Gz> >> <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjCm8Gz> >>
>> Claude Lyneis
>> <cmlyneis...>
>> https://www.youtube.com/bhsvideodad >> Flickr Photos at https://flic.kr/ps/36it5P >>
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