I personally have no desire to pay to use our game lands or parks,
everywhere i turn more expenses, that's what the purpose of parks and game
lands is to enjoy without being a property owner, I pay enough taxes,and
can barely make ends meet as is
On Fri, Feb 14, 2025, 8:20 PM Wayne Hoffman <carolinabirds...> wrote:
> Hi, Harry -
>
> You make good points -
>
> It is my hope that a user fee (should cost substantially less than a
> hunting license for non-consumptive use) gets birders, etc. standing to be
> heard in management decisions, and maybe representation on boards, etc.
>
> Wayne Hoffman
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Harry LeGrand" <carolinabirds...>
> *Cc: *"CarolinaBirds" <carolinabirds...>
> *Sent: *Friday, February 14, 2025 4:50:37 PM
> *Subject: *Re: Conservation Access Pass Proposed by NCWRC
>
> Folks,
>
> I hope all of you in North Carolina have now had a chance to read the NC
> Wildlife Resources Commission's webpage on the proposed Conservation Access
> Pass (CAP), and especially the questions and answers:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ncwildlife.org/conservation-access-pass__;!!OToaGQ!q6Xnh3GZG7RFf0aa8-ayh4cjHia3ydIcYLYd2wvmzbbiR0ZUej9aOH4DUp9QkxCgC90XhMvPW8OfyVUEGdrJgudHwBTPSho$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ncwildlife.org/conservation-access-pass__;!!OToaGQ!pHaqrS5OonhEOPTj4cSvybrRcMu-Gyjj1y8g8rJZ_qB2fMDVl21zJy8yQk-FMevXupiX3-iMLupFfkNJrOJ9Ckk$> >
> This seems to be a *user fee, *for doing something most of us have been
> doing for free; and with paying for a pass, we birders seemingly get
> nothing in return. Note the use of "require" and "will need" in the Q and
> A section. I wonder if this push for a pass came from hunters, fishermen,
> and boaters, who have to pay to use the game lands, whereas currently
> hikers, birders, photographers, etc., don't. (Note that hunting and
> fishing are consumptive activities, whereby animals are taken from the
> wild; and boating typically requires the building and usage of boat ramps.
> Birding, photography, hiking, etc., are considered as non-consumptive
> activities.) The proposal might have come from within the Wildlife
> Commission staff; I don't know whose idea it was. Note the lack of
> anything about use of the CAP monies going for conservation uses. That
> might be a decision later. But also note:
>
> *Will NCWRC offer new amenities or infrastructure as a result of the
> access pass?*
>
> NCWRC offers minimally developed wild spaces for the enjoyment of wildlife
> and natural habitat.
> --
>
> that WRC is not planning any new amenities or infrastructure, such as
> bathrooms or observation decks -- at least not now.
>
> It is important to note that the public is not charged to visit NC State
> Parks (other than for swimming or camping), many or most national park
> units such as Great Smoky Mountains National Park, and national wildlife
> refuges such as Pea Island and Mattamuskeet. (Other states often do have
> fees or passes to visit such public lands, however.) And, please note
> that many to most of these parks and refuges do have restrooms and also
> some have visitor centers. Hardly any NC Game Land has facilities, other
> than boat ramps. There would be a bit of double-standard if WRC
> establishes a user fee on its lands whereas other public land agencies,
> with visitor facilities, have yet to do so.
>
> And, as I mentioned yesterday, the questions and answers do not clarify a
> few items, such as whether there will be fines for people on game lands not
> carrying a pass. How would the staff patrol large game lands for
> passholders where there are often many public roads passing through them,
> or adjacent to them? The webpage says that people will be required to have
> a pass (or already existing license) to access the game lands, other than
> saying that "Individuals aged 16 and under would not be required to have
> their own access pass, but must be with an adult who has an access pass or
> valid license." Of course, there is no suggestion of the cost of a yearly
> CAP, as yet.
>
> So, I don't see this as being anything close to a win-win, especially as
> there is nothing on that page saying that such CAP funds would be used for
> conservation purposes (such as building observation decks, parking lots, or
> bathrooms) or to benefit the Nongame Wildlife Program.
>
> Those of you attending any of the meetings should come prepared to ask
> many questions. I will look for an outlet to express these comments, as
> being in Raleigh I don't plan to travel to Greensboro or Greenville to ask
> questions in person. * I am not opposed to paying for such a pas*s, and
> would do so if not a great cost, though a lot of questions and answers will
> need to be addressed; I don't want to be fined for simply walking around on
> a publicly-owned game land without a pass. (I will add that I have been
> paying about $20 extra yearly for my vanity license plate, for about 30
> years; these funds go to the Clean Water/Natural Heritage Trust Fund, some
> of which goes to WRC to acquire game lands.)
>
> Harry LeGrand
> Raleigh
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 7:22 PM Nate Dias <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>
>> Kay,
>>
>> In addition to Federal Duck Stamps, there are also State Duck Stamps.
>> To hunt ducks in South Carolina, one must purchase both. I presume NC is
>> the same.
>>
>> Respectfully, there is a problem with Mae's suggestion of using the
>> existing "duck stamp framework" to require duck stamps to enter state
>> wildlife management areas / state game lands, etc. The problem is that
>> the powers that be would have no way to distinguish between hunters and
>> non-consumptive users. It would all look like hunters to them.
>>
>> Having a separate "Conservation Pass" would show that specific numbers of
>> birders, hikers, wildlife photographers, etc. are pulling their own weight
>> financially. By demonstrating that numbers of us non-hunters pay to
>> maintain (and purchase) these conservation areas, it would give us a seat
>> at the table and hopefully get more consideration in decisions on habitat
>> management, access, focus of resources and staff time on non-game species,
>> etc.
>>
>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>
>> --
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!q6Xnh3GZG7RFf0aa8-ayh4cjHia3ydIcYLYd2wvmzbbiR0ZUej9aOH4DUp9QkxCgC90XhMvPW8OfyVUEGdrJgudHdeTaSqs$ >> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!qUPOdfv2Fttr86Ks-VbPESbl0qHeH5tgga06qbTkNKcYBs_b9Wyc08F96tpKT0sQJzq-qRyGFf3v0PUaGbcS87OfYzzn$> >>
>> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
>> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
>> shot." -- Bror Blixen
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 4:35 PM <k.grinnell...> <
>> <k.grinnell...> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Duck Stamps go to federal funding thru U.S. Fish & Wildlife.
>>> This concept being discussed is about creating a means to contribute to
>>> state DNR coffers, I believe.
>>>
>>> Kay
>>> Hilton Head
>>>
>>> Kay Grinnell
>>> <k.grinnell...>
>>> 843 597-3633 cell
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 04:31:17 PM EST, M Howell <
>>> <hareboro...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been to states that require fees or a Duck Stamp for entry into
>>> wildlife refuges and similar areas. Wouldn't this, an established and
>>> known program, work for NC and SC?
>>>
>>> Mae Howell
>>> Goldsboro NC
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for Android
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg__;!!OToaGQ!qUPOdfv2Fttr86Ks-VbPESbl0qHeH5tgga06qbTkNKcYBs_b9Wyc08F96tpKT0sQJzq-qRyGFf3v0PUaGbcS8_UKm2F0$> >>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* <carolinabirds-request...> <carolinabirds-request...>
>>> on behalf of "<k.grinnell...>" <carolinabirds...>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2025 2:46:47 PM
>>> *To:* J. Merrill Lynch <jmerrilllynch...>; Nate Dias <
>>> <offshorebirder...>
>>> *Cc:* Ann Robertson <annbluebird2730...>; CarolinaBirds <
>>> <carolinabirds...>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Conservation Access Pass Proposed by NCWRC
>>>
>>> I agree Nate! I'm sure Dr. Tom Mullikin, SC's new Exec Director of DNR
>>> has his hands full. I wonder if he heard from all the bird clubs and
>>> Audubons around the state of SC if he might consider putting this kind of
>>> action on his agenda.
>>>
>>> As President of Hilton Head Audubon, I'm ready to stir up some energy
>>> for this!
>>>
>>> Kay
>>> Hilton Head
>>>
>>> Kay Grinnell
>>> <k.grinnell...>
>>> 843 597-3633 cell
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 13, 2025 at 01:47:10 PM EST, Nate Dias" (via
>>> carolinabirds Mailing List) <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I wish SC DNR would do the same thing.
>>>
>>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!q6Xnh3GZG7RFf0aa8-ayh4cjHia3ydIcYLYd2wvmzbbiR0ZUej9aOH4DUp9QkxCgC90XhMvPW8OfyVUEGdrJgudHdeTaSqs$ >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!qRAhn5Mbo9jXSRGNxUFo7pPOVDK9hIs_bTB0KIL6GOzNURN6HcZQSjz7kPB1TzZRO8ia33VcopX7yqxgxM0PmNn1d-Ce$> >>>
>>> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
>>> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
>>> shot." -- Bror Blixen
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 1:11 PM "J. Merrill Lynch" <
>>> <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree this would be a good thing to support. Many other states already
>>> have a special permit for access to public gamelands. A requirement to wear
>>> blaze orange during hunting season would be a sensible addition.
>>>
>>> And I also agree it would give the non-hunting community a bigger seat
>>> at the table on decisions regarding public lands management.
>>>
>>> J. Merrill Lynch
>>> Echo Valley Farm
>>> Watauga County, NC
>>> Elevation: 3,400 feet
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 11:16 AM Ann Robertson <carolinabirds...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Carolinabirders,
>>>
>>> In this morning's Coastal Review, I read about an exciting proposal from
>>> the NC Wildlife Resources Commission to offer a "Conservation Access
>>> Pass". This would be the birder equivalent of a hunting / fishing license,
>>> and would renew annually. The pass would provide entry to 2 million acres
>>> of gameland, boating access areas, and more. It is not limited to birders;
>>> a range of recreational uses are mentioned
>>>
>>> There are three public meetings across the state, coming up soon.
>>> There's also a VIRTUAL meeting on March 4th, for which you may register.
>>>
>>> I was told a while back by a politically experienced birder that one
>>> reason birders don't carry as much weight with state officials as hunters
>>> is that we don't contribute to the public till with special taxes,
>>> licenses, etc. Apparently, at one time a "birders' tax" was proposed on
>>> items such as binoculars, birdseed, etc., that would have fed into
>>> conservation. Our flock apparently did not endorse this, sadly.
>>>
>>> I may be wrong, and wiser heads may weigh in, but I believe this
>>> Conservation Access Pass would be a win-win. It would provide access to
>>> wonderful birding areas while funding our under-resourced NCWRC. Here's a
>>> link to the article so you may consider this issue:
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://coastalreview.org/2025/02/state-seeks-feedback-on-proposed-conservation-access-pass/__;!!OToaGQ!q6Xnh3GZG7RFf0aa8-ayh4cjHia3ydIcYLYd2wvmzbbiR0ZUej9aOH4DUp9QkxCgC90XhMvPW8OfyVUEGdrJgudHkF4Dtu4$ >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://coastalreview.org/2025/02/state-seeks-feedback-on-proposed-conservation-access-pass/__;!!OToaGQ!sQbft_AcXNQj8ledwFhYKky5NbZn7hca1wSaI14YgPSug_57wpicBzaStZZ4T4YPmUX3aRzPCYnXvYK17yBxJIbgMXyGXw$> >>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ann Blue Robertson
>>> Winston-Salem
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
