Thanks for sharing that. This is a bad recipe when combined with other
climate change-induced factors such as tropical storms maintaining
strength farther inland, as described in this paper:
On Tue, Oct 8, 2024 at 9:38 AM Nate Dias <carolinabirds...> wrote:
> This is an article that talks about studies finding that faster-growing
> vines (presumably from increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere) are
> affecting forest regeneration:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19873968__;!!OToaGQ!q4MAgOiCfKlGykFYuJp-zMa9EeqOQUn5J6vEP3xpvMN8_AjElJK9hu_ThzMiEQFS4yLfM7FQfVyCu1cNyhz2$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19873968__;!!OToaGQ!oNupFCVRdbMfUCTz_24Zh5bLRI6eFSf9IOY4DiasI1utNqDVmzwT_c-LtAATue1jHV90IshWge__m4inzwtZABOq62nv$> >
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19873968__;!!OToaGQ!q4MAgOiCfKlGykFYuJp-zMa9EeqOQUn5J6vEP3xpvMN8_AjElJK9hu_ThzMiEQFS4yLfM7FQfVyCu-4TmtwO$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna19873968__;!!OToaGQ!oNupFCVRdbMfUCTz_24Zh5bLRI6eFSf9IOY4DiasI1utNqDVmzwT_c-LtAATue1jHV90IshWge__m4inzwtZAEvvz5R0$> >
> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>
> --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!q4MAgOiCfKlGykFYuJp-zMa9EeqOQUn5J6vEP3xpvMN8_AjElJK9hu_ThzMiEQFS4yLfM7FQfVyCuxE-T1OO$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!oNupFCVRdbMfUCTz_24Zh5bLRI6eFSf9IOY4DiasI1utNqDVmzwT_c-LtAATue1jHV90IshWge__m4inzwtZAOjWy2o5$> >
> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
> shot." -- Bror Blixen
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 12:16 PM Marilyn Westphal <mjwestph...>
> wrote:
>
>> Yes, Nate, that was kind of my point. I was just trying to clarify that
>> the birds aren’t more attracted to those “traps,” just the birders are
>> because they are more accessible and there are more clearings so that
>> viewing is easier.
>> I absolutely agree about the vine issue. Some of those open areas get
>> decimated especially by kudzu. There are even teams of volunteers working
>> diligently in some of those natural areas to try to keep the kudzu back.
>> It takes over and covers everything, not only the trees, but the native
>> wildflowers.
>> Marilyn
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 8:43 AM, Nate Dias <offshorebirder...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I was not worried so much about the birds Marilyn - but rather the
>> quality of the habitat at certain migrant traps that are consistently
>> productive for close observation and photography. The tupelos, Mulberries
>> and virginia creeper-laden and grape-laden, etc. trees are a big part of
>> the migrant traps' 'holding power' and they help birders get looks at birds
>> as the birds swashbuckle around eating fruits.
>>
>> I like to get longer, better, and repeated looks (and photo
>> opportunities) at migrants at sites with edge habitat, vine tangles and
>> early successional habitat in a mix - versus the birding experience of
>> "glimpse it for a few seconds and then it's gone forever" so common at
>> ridgetop migration birding spots - not my cup of tea at all. And sure,
>> forest canopies provide great food and habitat for migrating birds, but
>> they do not often lead to good close observation and photo opportunities.
>>
>> I and others have routes where there are 4-5 of these edge habitat
>> migrant traps (often along waterways) within close proximity so you can
>> make a circuit and work them in a morning's birding. The Walcott Tract is
>> one of them.
>>
>> Wayne - I completely agree that native vine tangles are great places for
>> migrating birds and birders. They have abundant fruit and insects to eat,
>> as well as good cover. But in SOME cases, vines that gain the upper hand
>> in an area can prevent forest succession from taking place. For example:
>> in a clearing at Santee NWR at the Bluff Unit (usually referred to as the
>> vine tangle) , ever since Hurricane Hugo knocked down most of the trees and
>> created a clearing in 1989, new saplings have been unable to make it to
>> maturity since vines smother them before they get tall enough to shade the
>> vine competition. There are a handful of taller / medium sized trees that
>> made it through Hugo but over time they are getting degraded and smothered
>> by the vines - and no replacement trees survive for very long. Once in a
>> while there is a windstorm strong enough to rip some vines off trees
>> without taking out the trees, but this is usually a delaying action and the
>> vines come back and eventually gain the upper hand. Besides the 'vine
>> tangle', vines are also taking over and preventing trees from reaching
>> maturity around the Ft. Watson Indian Mound at Santee NWR. I could list
>> many more examples.
>>
>> There are also areas at the Walcott Tract where vines (some non-native)
>> are overwhelming trees including Tupelos with valuable drupes. Week before
>> last we were enjoying many thrushes, Grosbeaks and Tanagers in a couple of
>> Tupelo trees that were in the process of succumbing to vines. But the
>> trees were up steep brushy slopes (in the microburst storm area) and would
>> be hard to access to do vine control work.
>>
>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>
>> --
>> flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2__;!!OToaGQ!oNupFCVRdbMfUCTz_24Zh5bLRI6eFSf9IOY4DiasI1utNqDVmzwT_c-LtAATue1jHV90IshWge__m4inzwtZABvkIgyU$> >>
>> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
>> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
>> shot." -- Bror Blixen
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 8:03 AM Marilyn Westphal <mjwestph...>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t think you have to worry so much about the birds. I think the
>>> “migrant traps,” at least in WNC where the forests are so vast, are more
>>> traps for birders than birds. The migratory birds that pass through WNC
>>> are largely forest birds and, although an astounding number of trees have
>>> come down everywhere, the forest stays largely intact. I can look up and
>>> see the Pisgah Forest from where I am. It’s still there. It’s the
>>> openings in the forest and the ridge lines that suffer the most and, no
>>> doubt new openings have been created, but the forest is there and the birds
>>> are coming through.
>>> I’m guessing that the Blue Ridge Parkway is a mess and it will be a
>>> long time before it reopens again. So, although many of our favorite
>>> birding areas are badly damaged, the birds still have vast areas to move
>>> through.
>>> For birders, besides the Blue Ridge Parkway and Chimney Rock (I have
>>> heard rumors that even the course of the Rocky Broad River has changed), I
>>> have heard that many sections of Green River Cove Rd are obliterated, and
>>> no doubt many, if not most, of the forest service roads are severely
>>> damaged by flooding and fallen trees. That is probably true with some of
>>> our favorite local parks as well since rivers run through many of them.
>>> It’s still hard to get around many places here, so hard to say.
>>> Unfortunately, most of our larger cities and towns are along rivers as
>>> well, which is why there is so much devastation here.
>>> For N.C. Bird Atlas managers, please note that some priority blocks will
>>> likely remain largely inaccessible for quite a long while.
>>> Marilyn
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Sep 30, 2024, at 4:33 PM, Wayne Hoffman <carolinabirds...>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi, Nate -
>>>
>>> Obviously, a storm like Helene can cause great changes to landscapes,
>>> and I agree that excess CO2 is a threat to all of nature and civilization.
>>> However, I would like to respond to your comments about the ascendancy of
>>> vines: Many of the native vines in this area provide high-quality food to
>>> fall migrant birds, including your triple digit thrushes and grosbeaks.
>>> When I go looking for these birds in fall migration I look for fruit
>>> (berries). The various species of wild grapes and grape relatives,
>>> Pokeweed berries, etc. are important to them. I love Long-leaf Pine
>>> habitats, but when I am looking for migrant thrushes I head for
>>> vine-tangled hardwood stands.
>>>
>>> Wayne Hoffman
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From: *"Nate Dias" <carolinabirds...>
>>> *To: *"CarolinaBirds" <carolinabirds...>
>>> *Sent: *Monday, September 30, 2024 1:42:47 PM
>>> *Subject: *Storm damage - Walcott Tract got walloped
>>>
>>> I am afraid that a lot of our treasured birding spots were severely
>>> degraded by the recent storm.
>>>
>>> A friend of mine lives across the Green River from the Walcott Tract of
>>> the Green River Game Lands. He texted me a photo - heartbreaking. Weekend
>>> before last I had 13 species of Warblers, 4 species of Thrushes (triple
>>> digit individuals) and lots of RB Grosbeaks there with JB Hines, Roger
>>> Smith, Brad Dalton, and John Cox.
>>>
>>> The Walcott Tract had a section of forest destroyed a few years ago by a
>>> microburst associated with a passing storm. But this damage is even
>>> worse. And when clearings get made now, vines t ake over and make it hard
>>> for trees to restore the canopy. I read somewhere that with all the extra
>>> CO2 in the atmosphere now, vines have the upper hand in the arms race with
>>> woody plants.
>>>
>>> I am also worried about other riverside birding spots / migrant traps in
>>> the mountains, foothills and piedmont. Not to mention the roads and
>>> bridges needed to reach them.
>>>
>>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!q4MAgOiCfKlGykFYuJp-zMa9EeqOQUn5J6vEP3xpvMN8_AjElJK9hu_ThzMiEQFS4yLfM7FQfVyCuxE-T1OO$ >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!pUJg63HdcA2VfaVE5lUPvuF_Gu-o8ImMHv__BrUz35aIjcmDMlbFGWrdGrp8tvZ-PEn7JET2xYG08i31Iefa2DXMFt8j$> >>>
>>> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
>>> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
>>> shot." -- Bror Blixen
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!q4MAgOiCfKlGykFYuJp-zMa9EeqOQUn5J6vEP3xpvMN8_AjElJK9hu_ThzMiEQFS4yLfM7FQfVyCuxE-T1OO$ > <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!oNupFCVRdbMfUCTz_24Zh5bLRI6eFSf9IOY4DiasI1utNqDVmzwT_c-LtAATue1jHV90IshWge__m4inzwtZAOjWy2o5$> >
> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph demands
> more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience than the rifle
> shot." -- Bror Blixen
>
>
