Date: 10/3/24 10:31 am From: <badgerboy...> Subject: Re: Storm damage--Boone
Thanks to all for this excellent discussion! Just want to add that I've
been to a few places post-storm, and had some ineresting experiences in
forests with and without vines. What was most amazing was that all the
fall migrants who are usually high up in the trees, were down on the
forest floor. I'm talking about various warblers and vireos, grosbeaks
and tanagers, thrushes as well, which, for the most part in fall
migration, are high up in the forest under normal conditions. After the
storm, however, all the action appeared to be taking place within about
10 feet of the ground. I wondered whether the strong winds and rains
knocked most of the caterpillars etc., down to ground level.
Guy (McGrane, Boone NC)
On 10/3/2024 12:16 PM, Marilyn Westphal wrote:
> Yes, Nate, that was kind of my point. I was just trying to clarify
> that the birds aren’t more attracted to those “traps,” just the
> birders are because they are more accessible and there are more
> clearings so that viewing is easier.
> I absolutely agree about the vine issue. Some of those open areas get
> decimated especially by kudzu. There are even teams of volunteers
> working diligently in some of those natural areas to try to keep the
> kudzu back. It takes over and covers everything, not only the trees,
> but the native wildflowers.
> Marilyn
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 3, 2024, at 8:43 AM, Nate Dias <offshorebirder...> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I was not worried so much about the birds Marilyn - but rather the
>> quality of the habitat at certain migrant traps that are consistently
>> productive for close observation and photography. The tupelos,
>> Mulberries and virginia creeper-laden and grape-laden, etc. trees are
>> a big part of the migrant traps' 'holding power' and they help
>> birders get looks at birds as the birds swashbuckle around eating fruits.
>>
>> I like to get longer, better, and repeated looks (and photo
>> opportunities) at migrants at sites with edge habitat, vine tangles
>> and early successional habitat in a mix - versus the birding
>> experience of "glimpse it for a few seconds and then it's gone
>> forever" so common at ridgetop migration birding spots - not my cup
>> of tea at all. And sure, forest canopies provide great food and
>> habitat for migrating birds, but they do not often lead to good close
>> observation and photo opportunities.
>>
>> I and others have routes where there are 4-5 of these edge habitat
>> migrant traps (often along waterways) within close proximity so you
>> can make a circuit and work them in a morning's birding. The Walcott
>> Tract is one of them.
>>
>> Wayne - I completely agree that native vine tangles are great places
>> for migrating birds and birders. They have abundant fruit and
>> insects to eat, as well as good cover. But in SOME cases, vines that
>> gain the upper hand in an area can prevent forest succession from
>> taking place. For example: in a clearing at Santee NWR at the Bluff
>> Unit (usually referred to as the vine tangle) , ever since Hurricane
>> Hugo knocked down most of the trees and created a clearing in 1989,
>> new saplings have been unable to make it to maturity since vines
>> smother them before they get tall enough to shade the vine
>> competition. There are a handful of taller / medium sized trees
>> that made it through Hugo but over time they are getting degraded and
>> smothered by the vines - and no replacement trees survive for very
>> long. Once in a while there is a windstorm strong enough to rip
>> some vines off trees without taking out the trees, but this is
>> usually a delaying action and the vines come back and eventually gain
>> the upper hand. Besides the 'vine tangle', vines are also taking over
>> and preventing trees from reaching maturity around the Ft. Watson
>> Indian Mound at Santee NWR. I could list many more examples.
>>
>> There are also areas at the Walcott Tract where vines (some
>> non-native) are overwhelming trees including Tupelos with valuable
>> drupes. Week before last we were enjoying many thrushes, Grosbeaks
>> and Tanagers in a couple of Tupelo trees that were in the process of
>> succumbing to vines. But the trees were up steep brushy slopes (in
>> the microburst storm area) and would be hard to access to do vine
>> control work.
>>
>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>
>> --
>> flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2__;!!OToaGQ!vMTh-BYQ2dDKy5zTjeMXqzKWoqcpDXWbeHsT_3e8H3XzgTIH4XYG2YoRJ_gtZvhqUefBLq5OH8U1WvUTIwmsA_Vzvg$> >>
>>
>> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph
>> demands more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more patience
>> than the rifle shot." -- Bror Blixen
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2024 at 8:03 AM Marilyn Westphal
>> <mjwestph...> wrote:
>>
>> I don’t think you have to worry so much about the birds. I
>> think the “migrant traps,” at least in WNC where the forests are
>> so vast, are more traps for birders than birds. The migratory
>> birds that pass through WNC are largely forest birds and,
>> although an astounding number of trees have come down everywhere,
>> the forest stays largely intact. I can look up and see the
>> Pisgah Forest from where I am. It’s still there. It’s the
>> openings in the forest and the ridge lines that suffer the most
>> and, no doubt new openings have been created, but the forest is
>> there and the birds are coming through.
>> I’m guessing that the Blue Ridge Parkway is a mess and it will
>> be a long time before it reopens again. So, although many of our
>> favorite birding areas are badly damaged, the birds still have
>> vast areas to move through.
>> For birders, besides the Blue Ridge Parkway and Chimney Rock (I
>> have heard rumors that even the course of the Rocky Broad River
>> has changed), I have heard that many sections of Green River Cove
>> Rd are obliterated, and no doubt many, if not most, of the forest
>> service roads are severely damaged by flooding and fallen trees.
>> That is probably true with some of our favorite local parks as
>> well since rivers run through many of them. It’s still hard to
>> get around many places here, so hard to say. Unfortunately, most
>> of our larger cities and towns are along rivers as well, which is
>> why there is so much devastation here.
>> For N.C. Bird Atlas managers, please note that some priority
>> blocks will likely remain largely inaccessible for quite a long
>> while.
>> Marilyn
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 30, 2024, at 4:33 PM, Wayne Hoffman
>>> <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi, Nate -
>>>
>>> Obviously, a storm like Helene can cause great changes to
>>> landscapes, and I agree that excess CO2 is a threat to all of
>>> nature and civilization. However, I would like to respond to
>>> your comments about the ascendancy of vines: Many of the native
>>> vines in this area provide high-quality food to fall migrant
>>> birds, including your triple digit thrushes and grosbeaks. When
>>> I go looking for these birds in fall migration I look for fruit
>>> (berries). The various species of wild grapes and grape
>>> relatives, Pokeweed berries, etc. are important to them. I love
>>> Long-leaf Pine habitats, but when I am looking for migrant
>>> thrushes I head for vine-tangled hardwood stands.
>>>
>>> Wayne Hoffman
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> *From: *"Nate Dias" <carolinabirds...>
>>> *To: *"CarolinaBirds" <carolinabirds...>
>>> *Sent: *Monday, September 30, 2024 1:42:47 PM
>>> *Subject: *Storm damage - Walcott Tract got walloped
>>>
>>> I am afraid that a lot of our treasured birding spots were
>>> severely degraded by the recent storm.
>>>
>>> A friend of mine lives across the Green River from the Walcott
>>> Tract of the Green River Game Lands. He texted me a photo -
>>> heartbreaking. Weekend before last I had 13 species of
>>> Warblers, 4 species of Thrushes (triple digit individuals) and
>>> lots of RB Grosbeaks there with JB Hines, Roger Smith, Brad
>>> Dalton, and John Cox.
>>>
>>> The Walcott Tract had a section of forest destroyed a few years
>>> ago by a microburst associated with a passing storm. But this
>>> damage is even worse. And when clearings get made now, vines t
>>> ake over and make it hard for trees to restore the canopy. I
>>> read somewhere that with all the extra CO2 in the atmosphere
>>> now, vines have the upper hand in the arms race with woody plants.
>>>
>>> I am also worried about other riverside birding spots / migrant
>>> traps in the mountains, foothills and piedmont. Not to mention
>>> the roads and bridges needed to reach them.
>>>
>>> Nathan Dias - Charleston, SC
>>>
>>> --
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!s8FHWppsKw2F3V0IINhvYuay3lODTSvvSnllq54WHX750Ygt4g7yEl-8QAtHosiN9idJIWVqEJZ7EAf8huaZGyM$ >>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.flickr.com/photos/offshorebirder2/__;!!OToaGQ!pUJg63HdcA2VfaVE5lUPvuF_Gu-o8ImMHv__BrUz35aIjcmDMlbFGWrdGrp8tvZ-PEn7JET2xYG08i31Iefa2DXMFt8j$> >>>
>>> "These days I prefer to hunt with a camera. A good photograph
>>> demands more skill from the hunter, better nerves and more
>>> patience than the rifle shot." -- Bror Blixen
>>
--
