Date: 6/20/19 11:52 pm
From: Ashwin S. <orfrigatebird...>
Subject: [obol] Re: Jay Question
Hi all,

It's worth noting that at least genetically speaking, there is no real
clear-cut species boundary between California and Woodhouse's Scrub Jays.
In fact, hybridization is extensive enough in the overlap zones in eastern
California and western Nevada that the subspecies found in California's
Eagle Mountains (A. californica cana) appears to be an entirely hybrid
population. So, when looking at scrub jays in areas possibly near overlap
zones (e.g. southeast Oregon) it's worth considering that the birds out
there may have considerable Woodhouse's admixture, as a lot (most?) of the
birds around the overlap zones do. The right question may be, "do these
birds lean on the California side or on the Woodhouse's side?"

There's also the fact that western Oregon scrub jays belong to the* immanis*
subspecies, while South-central and SE Oregon scrub jays belong to *oocleptica
*(at least conventionally, these subspecies were devised long before
genetics). *Oocleptica*, at least in California and Nevada, forms a cline
with *nevadae*, which is part of Woodhouse's SJ. Is this why SE Oregon
scrub jays are duller? Maybe.

Definitely lots of interesting research possibilities on SE OR scrub jays.

Ashwin S.


On Thu, Jun 20, 2019 at 10:14 PM Robert O'Brien <baro...> wrote:

> *Well, it ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble, it's what
> you do know but ain't so...* to quote a sage OBOLer
> Attached is a collage I posted to OBOL a couple of years ago. The
> slightly-edited accompanying email is below.
> These photos were taken in Caruthers Canyon in the Mohave Nation Preserve
> east of Death Valley, California; which I _believe_ is an
> accepted 'westernmost' population of Woodhouse Jay. Certainly well
> isolated ecologically from western populations.
> Note the strong white supercilium, fairly strong necklace, and apparent
> white undertail coverts.
>
> Now, as for me, I don't really profess to _know_ what these birds or the
> Oregon birds are but as noted below, the Caruthers birds' behavior fit the
> reputed Woodhouse profile quite well.
>
> I wonder if we _may_ be getting into a Western Flycatcher type conundrum
> .........................?
>
> Bob OBrien Carver OR
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My California brother had visited Caruthers Canyon in the Death Valley
> National Preserve
> about 20 years ago and had noticed the Jays were 'different'. Different
> calls, shyer.
> Subsequently they were split. Last January we decided to check them out.
>
> So we combined a trip for desert wildflowers with a scrub-jay-foray in
> April. This dry, beautiful, rocky
> canyon is characterized by several oaks and the interesting & unique
> Single-leaf Pinyon Pine.
>
> Here's what we found. They do indeed sound differently and are much shyer
> than their western cousins.
> We saw no evidence they hung out around the campers and their potential
> handouts or scraps;
> and they were not easy to photograph. We saw several pairs flying across
> the flat Pygmy Joshua Tree desert
> on our way to the canyon and their 'azure' blue coloration appeared quite
> different than the coastal jays.
> (Actually, I have no idea what azure means in this context but the color
> was striking, perhaps 'softer' in bright sunlight.)
>
> Still they are absolutely not lacking in personality.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 10:47 AM Tom Crabtree <tc...> wrote:
>
>> I would call it a California. Woodhouse’s should have blue undertail
>> coverts, a black ear patch, no “necklace in front and an indistinct
>> supercilium. Your bird has white undertail coverts, a gray ear patch, a
>> partial necklace and a noticeable supercillium. It looks similar to the
>> Scrub Jays we get in Bend, which are distinctly duller than the ones found
>> on the west side.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Crabtree, Bend
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* <obol-bounce...> [mailto:<obol-bounce...>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Sally Hill
>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 09, 2019 12:43 PM
>> *To:* OBOL
>> *Subject:* [obol] Jay Question
>>
>>
>>
>> Vickie Buck and I recently returned from trip to Malheur County where we
>> saw and Vickie got some photos of this jay. The bird was seen in little
>> park in town of Brogan.
>>
>> This is not typical of the California Scrub Jays that we see on the West
>> side of Oregon.
>>
>> It had a gray back and a limited necklace that was almost the same color
>> as the back. Indistinct supercilium. The under parts are very pale. We
>> initially thought California but now not so sure.
>>
>> I sent these photos to a guide that leads trips in Arizona he said he
>> leaned towards Woodhouse's but could not necessarily eliminate hybrid,
>> California x Woodhouse's. thoughts?
>>
>> * IMG_3241.JPG
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ik1Gl-Ej6_QlplTC04OWUwVWQwRmpKb2c3YW8zRm1yZHBv/view?usp=drive_web>*
>>
>>
>>
>> * IMG_3243.JPG
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ik1Gl-Ej6_WDBsUVpqSmRaSDAxdThZdTlrMWZhMUh4VFVv/view?usp=drive_web>*
>>
>>
>>
>> * IMG_3242.JPG
>> <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ik1Gl-Ej6_X1NPM1VTVmNNM2g2b1VDbzVxYmdsUF80d3Fr/view?usp=drive_web>*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sally Hill
>>
>> Eugene Oregon
>>
>>
>>
>

 
Join us on Facebook!