Date: 3/13/17 3:33 pm
From: Nancy Young <0000018632ccc347-dmarc-request...>
Subject: Re: Junco
Here is an interesting one.
Nancy Young

On Monday, March 13, 2017 12:13 PM, Daniel Mason <millipede1977...> wrote:

I was hoping to see some replies to this.  I'm not so good with the variations of these birds(or a lot of birds) but find them fascinating.  Dan Scheiman is not always correct but he typically does question the right things for the right reasons.  These photos seem hard to judge for me.  Did the bird appear these colors in the binoculars?  Looking at the twigs in the background I'm picking up orange here and there as well which has me thinking there was some low sunlight shining in.  That would affect the appearance enough to throw me off for sure.  It is both interesting and frustrating how birds can look so different in different lighting and even naked eye vs binoculars vs camera.  I'll see birds real well in my binoculars and then take a picture and find different colors show that I didn't see.  Looking at your pictures and comparing to the few on all about birds... Parts of the wings and the back in your first picture seem way too dark for oregon, enough that I wouldn't call it one.  Also, I'm looking at Sibley's 1st edition at the moment and it seems the oregon's head should be more well defined looking like it has a hood.  And over on the slate section it shows a "brown adult" as well as some that are found in Canada that look VERY oregon like.  I do believe, despite my comments on lighting, that at least some of that is not lighting.  The area by the shoulder I would definitely not attribute to the sun and is not typical slate but, there's so much variation among the slates... and even though I don't think the sun caused that color I think if it was shining on the bird it may have magnified it.   that brown adult could look like this bird.
I think this is one of the reasons why I haven't tried too hard to learn beyond "yep, that's a junco."  So many variations in some of these birds and I'm still learning individual species. HA. 
Sorry for the rambling.  I think currently I'm inclined to agree with Mr Scheiman and say this is a brownish slate, perhaps has some oregon in it?  I'd be frustrated too.  I have a long list of birds and photos that I could never be certain of.
Did anyone else have thoughts?  Did Joe ever get back to you?  Talking these things out and discussions and looking at actual photos teach me more than simply looking in a book.  Hope you don't mind that jumble of thoughts. 

Daniel Mason

On 3/12/2017 11:20 AM, Karen Garrett wrote:

Hi, Joe.  Would you look at these pictures of a junco and tell me if you think this is an Oregon Junco or just a Slate-colored?  It looks like an Oregon to me, with the orangey-brown on the back and flanks.  Dan Scheiman doesn't seem to think much of my ID skills.  He says Slate-colored.  I have never seen 9a Slate-colored with all of this orange/rust on it, not even the females.  The females brown is more of a grayish brown.  He said I should let you see the photos and see what you think.  I won't be offended if you think I'm wrong.  My frustration is more with Mr Scheiman.  The color of this bird was orangish enough that I actually briefly thought Towhee before the bird's shape and size knocked me closer to reality.
Thanks, Joe
Karen Garrett

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