Date: 2/24/17 6:17 am
From: Nate Swick <nswick...>
Subject: Re: : Trumpeter Swan still on French Broad River, Asheville
I think those most recent photos to eBird make a pretty good case for
Tundra Swan for this bird, particularly around the eye. Dwayne Martin
pointed out to me backchannel that there were three Tundra Swans at this
very site not much more than a month ago.

Here are some photos included on an eBird checklist from this period. Note
that one of the younger birds has a splotchy bill and appears to have a
pointed forehead, like this bird we're discussing.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ebird.org_ebird_view_checklist_S33190316&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=CRAb8dNnGu7yrOJFv4qStAxmo1wFnXgc7sr0ZpHqgG0&s=MmDwJtb6EHsT3hg_8mEntvpYYgGjfFnC5vTxJmfkYOE&e=

Seems to me to most likely be this bird that is advancing in its molt. It
took off to some location nearby for a few weeks where it was not recorded
and has returned to the same spot.

What I find most interesting is the inconsistency of this forehead field
mark. If you look at most (all?) North American field guides they treat it
as a hard and fast rule. But scrutiny of Tundra Swans in North Carolina,
particularly now that we have regular Trumpeters mixed in, has suggested
that this isn't the case at all.

Nate Swick
GSO, NC

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Jamie Adams <carolinabirds...> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
>
>
> I believe it is a Trumpeter, see this link. Middle bill pink is normal
> for Trumpeter, Tundra juvenile would have more pink. Leg color better and
> probably most compelling case for Trumpeter and retaining gray plumage
> longer for subadult bird fits for Trumpeter.
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.trumpeterswansociety.org_juvenile-2Dswans.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=CRAb8dNnGu7yrOJFv4qStAxmo1wFnXgc7sr0ZpHqgG0&s=fbuMwbuWWEFvpnP8ZW0IUJ-c8RXjlgdmiVP7qRTGNg0&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.trumpeterswansociety.org_juvenile-2Dswans.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=nejclrBwh_Bq3lBsnLBBLiheE_YHaKFwgLKA6F8HYyM&s=uO4tV_qXk5Gc9SNJZ2O0kD-8iBoq68HgkTr-VF3FHv0&e=>
>
>
>
> here is text if link not working:
>
>
>
> Both Trumpeter and Tundra juveniles are gray in fall and winter. Tundras
> are brighter silvery gray with black legs and feet. Trumpeters are darker
> sooty gray, especially in the head and neck area, and their leg and foot
> color is primarily yellow-orange mottling with some black. Tundra juveniles
> begin turning white in late December and by mid March are nearly all white.
> Trumpeter juveniles usually remain darker gray longer, with gray feathers
> on the head and neck persisting well into spring. In winter, Trumpeter
> juveniles may vary in age by up to 6 weeks due to geographic differences in
> hatching dates. As a result, they show considerable individual and
> geographic variation in the timing of their molt into white plumage. Tundra
> bill color is usually mottled pink with black tip, with less black at the
> base than Trumpeters. Trumpeter bills are black at base and tip with a pink
> middle. Juvenile bill color in winter gradually shifts to all black in both
> species.
>
>
>
> Now look at these pics on eBird of the Asheville bird.
>
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ebird.org_ebird_view_checklist_S34629890&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=CRAb8dNnGu7yrOJFv4qStAxmo1wFnXgc7sr0ZpHqgG0&s=W1tsrnHoGyE0HoWjq0_AOgn0GqmwXYYr0okQkwcjNWQ&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ebird.org_ebird_view_checklist_S34629890&d=DwMGaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=nejclrBwh_Bq3lBsnLBBLiheE_YHaKFwgLKA6F8HYyM&s=LvBbP5Wr46yUkif8UTr3LPB6mCzga6jmXSps4nxUKSQ&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jamie Adams
>
> Wilmington, NC
>
>
>
> *From:* <carolinabirds-request...> [mailto:carolinabirds-request@
> duke.edu] *On Behalf Of *Harry LeGrand
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 23, 2017 4:52 PM
> *To:* ATCClack <atcclack...>
> *Cc:* Simon Thompson <carolinabirds...>
> *Subject:* Re: : Trumpeter Swan still on French Broad River, Asheville
>
>
>
> I haven't seen much if any discussion of this Buncombe County swan. While
> at Pungo refuge on Monday, Derb Carter and I studied hundreds and hundreds
> of Tundra Swans at very close range -- less than 100 yards away thru 30+
> scopes. We saw none that were 15-20% larger, and thus all we saw were
> Tundras. So -- what's the connection and concern? Most of the immatures
> -- identified by light sooty face and neck, if not some pink on the bill, *had
> a strong and clear V-feathering on the forehead where it meets the bill.*
> We did not see this on adults -- white plumage and all dark bills (yellow
> spot or nor). The adults showed the characteristic rounded or straight-ish
> meeting of the feathers of the forehead with the top of the bill. But MOST
> of the immature Tundra Swans showed the V-shape of the feathering at the
> top of the bill.
>
>
>
> My brother in TN e-mailed me earlier about concern over the ID of the
> Buncombe bird, thinking it might be a Tundra. A lot of the gestalt features
> I have seen in the photos lean me toward a Tundra Swan -- such as the
> narrowness of the black bill where it meets the eye, shape of the bill,
> etc. Of course, we who have not seen the bird in the field cannot judge
> its overall size from photos; it is a lot bigger than a Mallard in a few
> photos, but all swans are.
>
>
>
> I just read an e-bird report saying the bird is an immature. Some
> descriptions say the neck is light grayish or light sooty. So -- is the
> bird an immature? What other marks on the bird -- besides the V-shape of
> feathering (and no yellow spot on the bill) -- lead folks to identifying
> the bird as a Trumpeter?
>
>
>
> Harry LeGrand
>
> Raleigh
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 1:36 PM, ATCClack <carolinabirds...> wrote:
>
> Trumpeter swan is still at Ledges Park just a little bit north as of 12:30
> today.
>
> Chris Clack
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Simon Thompson <carolinabirds...>
> Date: 2/18/17 5:37 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: <carolinabirds...>
> Subject: Fwd: Trumpeter Swan on French Broad River, Asheville
>
> Folks
>
> We are pretty confident that the swan on the French Broad River just north
> of Asheville is indeed a sub-adult Trumpeter Swan. Photos have been
> uploaded to the Carolina Bird Club website:
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.carolinabirdclub.org_gallery_Johnston_trus.html&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=CRAb8dNnGu7yrOJFv4qStAxmo1wFnXgc7sr0ZpHqgG0&s=hn5cuORZaMeAOsIhLEFNmR2eLljjFyNdE6beIZIkXt0&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.carolinabirdclub.org_gallery_Johnston_trus.html&d=DwMFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz%20-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=LHuusX8cUFM8NW-cI8bCnLPkJmeAFVfQLkLeNKL9agc&s=RuphG-M16QbiCuAeQvo64VQQcjeGOnepcO1ey6DE764&e=>
>
>
>
> Thanks to Doug Johnston, Clifton Avery, John Koon and Tom Bush for getting
> photos that clinched the ID. It's a tough call, but the "V" shape of the
> white above the bill is conclusive, Compare this to the U shaped or flat
> shape on the Tundra Swan.
>
> See Sibley's information for more details:
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sibleyguides.com_2006_02_distinguishing-2Dtrumpeter-2Da&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=CRAb8dNnGu7yrOJFv4qStAxmo1wFnXgc7sr0ZpHqgG0&s=63NWkulFVYw3aw10aaObpo2oHFupiA866acOC3t_Yr8&e=
> nd-tundra-swans/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.sibleyguides.com_2006_02_distinguishing-2Dtrumpeter-2Dand-2Dtundra-2Dswans_&d=DwMFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=LHuusX8cUFM8NW-cI8bCnLPkJmeAFVfQLkLeNKL9agc&s=D43QzZW6ijcAOsHXGJEKlj-6KwA-s3INpnaZVoe54No&e=>
>
>
>
> A few photos are also attached
>
>
>
> Directions: Go to Ledges Whitewater River Park on the French Broad River
> (Alexander)
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.google.com_maps_place_Ledges-2BWhitewater-2BRiver-2B&d=DwIFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=CRAb8dNnGu7yrOJFv4qStAxmo1wFnXgc7sr0ZpHqgG0&s=_Ab6U2GScOUJJEFWZMq7HXIZ4fcCQ67jWwRvXyRKBZc&e=
> Park/@35.6845176,-82.6196865,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:
> 0xc81f18538ccbcb6c!8m2!3d35.6845132!4d-82.617498?hl=en&authuser=0
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.google.com_maps_place_Ledges-2BWhitewater-2BRiver-2BPark_-4035.6845176-2C-2D82.6196865-2C17z_data-3D-214m5-213m4-211s0x0-3A0xc81f18538ccbcb6c-218m2-213d35.6845132-214d-2D82.617498-3Fhl-3Den-26authuser-3D0&d=DwMFaQ&c=imBPVzF25OnBgGmVOlcsiEgHoG1i6YHLR0Sj_gZ4adc&r=ymRCw6Q-sBitug_rdeO1Tokz-I_SX2LQN2_Ocvlal9U&m=LHuusX8cUFM8NW-cI8bCnLPkJmeAFVfQLkLeNKL9agc&s=TsyK2_SDUL7L1fxndQjXiO_vIgzyUKmuvBDueyRqC6w&e=>
>
> Continue downstream for half a mile and park in the large pull- off. The
> swan was in the river (far side) near this pull-off around 4:30 PM today.
> Hope it's in the same place tomorrow.
>
> As far as I know, this may be a first record for Western North Carolina.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Simon RB Thompson
>
> Ventures Birding Tours
>
> Asheville, North Carolina
>
> Check out our 2017 birding & nature tours - International
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> and WNC day trips
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